Wholehog 4

24

Comments

  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited November 2009
    I hope they take a look at the full network backup feature from ma.. That's what worry's me the most from hog 3.. But on the other hand it keeps getting better and better!!

    You will be happy to know that network backup is on our plans for the near future. We hope to have this functionality available soon.
  • amir877amir877 Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited November 2009
    Hey Brad, long time don't see a massege from you...i have to commant to now...

    Guys, the only real problame the Hog3 have is the "heart", bugs, slow, conectivity, etc...those came from the heart of the console, switch the heart and all of those problams will gone...the hog 3 software are muce muce more advance then the hardware, the CPU/OS/RAM/MB/prosesor/wairing etc...are really old fasion technology and Must replace them to new "state of the art" parts.

    Lets take for example...Nokia "conecting peuple" :)
    The new N97 is a great phone (like the H3) but the software are far more advance then the hardware so this phone as came to it end and it have no future because the software stand on a really old tach...so...nokia came in and take a new, state of the art, "Heart", called "Maemo 5", and go out with the one and only...THE N900 (my new phone after it came to the market).

    Thats the same with hog, we only need a new heart for that awesome console.

    Just my....
    Amir
    Danix Systems
    Israel
  • LEn-OperatorLEn-Operator Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2009
    bradpepe wrote: »
    You will be happy to know that network backup is on our plans for the near future. We hope to have this functionality available soon.

    That's good news!
    the CPU/OS/RAM/MB/prosesor/wairing etc...are really old fasion technology and Must replace them to new "state of the art" parts.

    Been there done that and you are right! It works!! We use a Hog iPC and we upgraded the hardware last year around this time and before that it was awful, it crashed almost every night and after the upgrade we had only some crashes.. You can count the number of times on 1 hand!!

    I'm looking forward for all the good and exciting stuff that will come!
  • erockerock Registered User
    edited December 2009
    Out of curiosity, what hardware did you upgrade in your IPC, I'm assuming that this was not reccomended by HES?

    Thanks
    Eric
  • jussikamunenjussikamunen Registered User
    edited December 2009
    Of course at some point some hardware upgrades are necessary so in that sence Hog4 is unavoidable.

    But we are still investing in Hog3 family (like many others...) so I hope developing H3 will not end very soon.

    If you think about Hog2 and how good and reliable it was (or still is) before Hog3 appeared there´s no rush with Hog4...

    -j-
  • MLorenzMLorenz Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2009
    erock wrote: »
    Out of curiosity, what hardware did you upgrade in your IPC, I'm assuming that this was not reccomended by HES?

    Thanks
    Eric


    There is a "upgrade-kit" for iPCs available.
    It is more a replacement-kit, you change almost everything in the iPC (motherboard, HD, timecode,...)
    After that you have the same power like a Roadhog.
    This kit is available from your HES-Dealer
  • LEn-OperatorLEn-Operator Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited January 2010
    erock wrote: »
    Out of curiosity, what hardware did you upgrade in your IPC, I'm assuming that this was not reccomended by HES?

    We replaced Motherboard-Graphicscard-Harddisk drive-Processor.
    And it was a complete HES upgrade pack. Engine (service department of Flashlight Netherlands) replaced the hardware.
    We had a lot of crashes in both Hog2 and Hog3 due to IDE HDD.. Now we're running on a SATA drive and all's fine!
    On new years eve i connected a single HD monitor and HOG3 crashed on the output window.. That's because the graphiccard is not that big on calculating power..
    Did you get your DualHead2Go working on Hog3??
  • erockerock Registered User
    edited January 2010
    No, it doesn't work with either, it used to be recognized right away without issue but it seems with a recent XPe image that it is no longer able to work wiith the console.

    Eric
  • GDiluminacionGDiluminacion Registered User
    edited February 2010
    No matter how many times the H3 has crash on me while doing a show!!! =( ....
    i´m steel a WH3 lover...
    my opinion is that there is too early to think on a H4 version and highend guys must look into getting the actual software to be the perfect one!...
    the board is lovelly... get ride of the god forbiden windows platform!!!... we all know that windows crash!!!... so WH3 will do the same!...
    IMHO!...
    best regards from peru!

    GF
  • eventdesignlabeventdesignlab Registered User
    edited April 2010
    I too believe there is a lot of development left in H3, I'm just curious how quickly it will continue to come about with Barco consuming High End Systems. The L.A. office is all but barebones, many people let go, and software revisions seeming to take longer and longer. Just curious how important the continuing development of H3 is to Barco and what resources they will continue to throw at it? Love my hog, but the merge into Barco got me a little worried.
  • jxgriffijxgriffi Registered User, DL Beta, Hog Beta
    edited April 2010
    I too believe there is a lot of development left in H3, I'm just curious how quickly it will continue to come about with Barco consuming High End Systems. The L.A. office is all but barebones, many people let go, and software revisions seeming to take longer and longer. Just curious how important the continuing development of H3 is to Barco and what resources they will continue to throw at it? Love my hog, but the merge into Barco got me a little worried.

    Well...the LA office is gone (from what I've been told). Once Mike was let go and Randy left...the writing was on the wall.

    I'm feeling the same way right now...I keep asking myself if the Barco merge is the first nail in the coffin. I look at Plasa and there was really no showing from Barco/HES. They announced a new light and software for Axons. (And the light was no where to be seen).

    I'm hoping things step up and get a quick pace to get back on line...if not, I might have to start looking elsewhere unfortunately.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited April 2010
    We had 3 updates the last month and from what I have understood, the next major update was announced for spring and it should have significant points. I think that with the (bad) past experiences, HES does not want a bad software version. It seems that we should have a lot of news and great functions this year in the next major update and in the followings.
  • MLorenzMLorenz Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited April 2010
    At the PL&S in Frankfurt I have been told that there will be 2 real updates this year, the bigger one in the end (november/december) and one in the middle of the year.
    And I think we all will like it.
  • nibornibor Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited April 2010
    Why invest time in a H4 give us USB backup on the H3 and is't the roadhog hind of a H4!!!! As with the MA 2, how many chaps have 60k right now to spend with thing so slim to spend
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited April 2010
    nibor wrote: »
    give us USB backup on the H3

    This should not be so far....
  • nibornibor Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited April 2010
    You think ,,,,, well I have had the console for 6 years and I do love programming it,
    and I hope you are right, but do you think they will ever fix the HTP clear bug
  • JeffMJeffM Registered User
    edited January 2011
    One person wrote this: Not a lot of LD's choose desk by their price - they choose it by what they like and what is reliable.
    Well, that may be the case. Let me tell you from a Production company owner/operator point of view. I am an LD and you bet your A** price is important. I can own 3 Hog 3 systems and have them out generating revenue to one MA console. If there was anything that the MA console could do that the Hog 3 cannot do, then I would take a look at owning one. But at the price, it would have to do a whole heck of a lot more than a Hog 3 console.
    Does having motorized faders do anything for you? NOPE!!!
    Justs looks cool. It's not like your mixing sound and need to grab 30 faders at once and run them to a specific level! One fader can have all the information for a cue in it. And since you can write command macros to play other cues from another list, you can still run multiple lists from the push of one go cue.
    Hog 3 could use a built in visualizer, but that is software not hardware.
    Better fixture builder, but again that is software.
    Basically the developers have their hands full with Hog 3 and getting it smoothed out before needing to even be worrying about another hardware/software platform.
    And with Microsoft stopping support on XP, you really need to concentrate on making Hog run on a Mac OS and soon. Vista is a joke and not sure what yet will become of Win 7 as I only use XP with Hog.
    Oh and BTW. Where the H*### is that remote focus device?
    Tried getting some answers at LDI and just got the run around.
  • tadawsontadawson Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Hog 3 was initially developed on Linux, and Mac is also currently a *nix under the hood, so this *should* have been easy . . . but HES decided to put the RoadHog line on Win instead . . . a decision I still can't comprehend . . . .

    And the last I looked, XP has full support until 2014 (or thereabouts), if my memory serves, so no real risks/need to change there just yet . . . and it still beats that which came after it!

    - Tim
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited January 2011
    JeffM wrote: »
    Hog 3 could use a built in visualizer, but that is software not hardware.

    Any console is far better off with a separate visualizer. The resources it takes to get decent visualization are ones I would not want to take away from the desk. "networking in" visualizers is really the best approach. That way you have dedicated processing/GPU resources.....just look at what is required for a good ESP or WYG system nowadays!
    JeffM wrote: »
    Better fixture builder, but again that is software.
    Basically the developers have their hands full with Hog 3 and getting it smoothed out before needing to even be worrying about another hardware/software platform.

    Yes and Yes
    JeffM wrote: »
    And with Microsoft stopping support on XP, you really need to concentrate on making Hog run on a Mac OS and soon. Vista is a joke and not sure what yet will become of Win 7 as I only use XP with Hog.

    Screw Apple! They change what hardware they support at the drop of a hat with no re4gard for their user base! Vista was a joke, but Win7 is pretty sweet.
    JeffM wrote: »
    Oh and BTW. Where the H*### is that remote focus device?
    Tried getting some answers at LDI and just got the run around.

    Probably will never see one as there are so many options with tablets, laptops, etc to network for this....much better for the user to pick the one that works best for their application than a far more expensive "stock" one. I hear iPad/iPhone apps are in the works as well which would make some happy I know.

    And also:
    tadawson wrote: »
    Hog 3 was initially developed on Linux, and Mac is also currently a *nix under the hood, so this *should* have been easy . . . but HES decided to put the RoadHog line on Win instead . . . a decision I still can't comprehend . . . .

    And the last I looked, XP has full support until 2014 (or thereabouts), if my memory serves, so no real risks/need to change there just yet . . . and it still beats that which came after it!

    There was a rumor that eventually XPe will be phased out and all the desks will run Linux. I highly support that idea!

    But saying that Linux is anything like the Unix running under OSX is like saying Windows is the same as Mac.
  • tadawsontadawson Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Any console is far better off with a separate visualizer. The resources it takes to get decent visualization are ones I would not want to take away from the desk. "networking in" visualizers is really the best approach. That way you have dedicated processing/GPU resources.....just look at what is required for a good ESP or WYG system nowadays!



    Yes and Yes



    Screw Apple! They change what hardware they support at the drop of a hat with no re4gard for their user base! Vista was a joke, but Win7 is pretty sweet.



    Probably will never see one as there are so many options with tablets, laptops, etc to network for this....much better for the user to pick the one that works best for their application than a far more expensive "stock" one. I hear iPad/iPhone apps are in the works as well which would make some happy I know.

    And also:


    There was a rumor that eventually XPe will be phased out and all the desks will run Linux. I highly support that idea!

    But saying that Linux is anything like the Unix running under OSX is like saying Windows is the same as Mac.

    I have worked on both, and they are almost identical once you get past the GUI, which is not a part of the O/S per-se. Both are a pretty fundamental *nix derivative, and offer the same utilities. Apple chose to go the idiot-proof route on their GUI, and Linux chose to give you all the choices you can stand . . . but under the covers, more the same than different! Frankly, a lot of the libraries and stuff upon which a lot of software depends are similar (if not the same) on OS/X and Linux . . . making code compatibility much more simplistic between them than Win and Mac by miles!

    Drop into a shell window on a current MAC sometime, and poke around . . . you will likely be amazed at how similar it is to any other *nix!

    And yes, Win and Mac are *very* different - under the covers as well. Totally different roots on the OS *and* the GUI . . . .

    - Tim
  • magiclightmagiclight Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Will be nice to have CITP support to watch media servers content thumbnails on consoles screens.
  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited February 2011
    Hi Georgiy,

    CITP is currently under development and planned for a release sometime after v3.2.
  • kinglevelkinglevel Registered User
    edited March 2011
    NO

    Make v3 better and release new desks.. why bother and redo everything

    Software

    Motorized faders
    Real network tracking/backup (Like MA)
    Better Effects Engine
    DMX in/Midi in for wings and other things....!!!!
    better macros+real macros (screen touching and buttonpresses)
    attach cues to playback buttons, why control chosed fader when buttons are already there?
    iphone/ipad support, access to everything!!!
    Timecode timeline with effects, groups, cues, faders.

    For future desks

    MORE FADERS, 10 is really really not enough, even hog 1000 is better at this...
    executor buttons
    bigger screens thats not cuntersucked into the desk.
    real multitouch
  • MLorenzMLorenz Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited March 2011
    Kinglevel,

    a lot of your requests will come in V3.2
    Midi in is already there (MSC and Midi Notes)

    you can do your executor Buttons of you open the cuelist or scenewindow, deselect the "Guard" Option and you have a mass of those buttons

    So most is there or to come in the next weeks with the release of 3.2
    Networktracking works great in the Beta-Release, as well as keystroke macros
  • nicholasdnicholasd Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Sorry this has nothing to do with Hog 4, but I don't know where else to ask. It's gonna sound stupid, but, how do I start a new thread? There is no link to be found for me to actually ask my own question. I can only reply to posts (which is why I am asking this question here). Any advice would be much appreciated.
    -Humbled
  • Abbe RPM Digital LightingAbbe RPM Digital Lighting Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Its newer stupid to ask questions! That is why we are here :) Welcome to the forum!

    Go to the Index
    http://forums.highend.com/index.php
    Then there are topics, click one that is related to your question, then in the top left there is a small square "New Thread"

    Good luck
  • nicholasdnicholasd Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Awesome Abbe, Thank You
  • tymontymon Registered User
    edited April 2011
    if Hog4 was to be somewhat compatible with Wholehog III console, why not?
  • JetfireJetfire Registered User
    edited April 2011
    Yes..

    Stop the silly bug fixes update's and build a new one named Wholehog 4
    Include a pixelmapper this time :)
  • Matteopio.olivieriMatteopio.olivieri Registered User
    edited April 2011
    personally, I think the system would be good enough as it is, at least, you should replace the touch screen with multi touch panels (and then change the software so that it can meet the needs multi-touch, as To date, no windows, linux and neither is compatible with multi-touch
    (In fact you can not split the pointer in windows simultaneously in two places at once, this is because it uses the main input-mouse pointer))),
    at least 20 motorized faders, 30 executor buttons least, it could be replaced by a 7''monitor multi touch directly on the bridge of the console (to be clear in the area where there is the numeric keypad), where the various functions can be implemented, it could insert a page with the executor virtual buttons that change color depending on the function of time, for any features you could give rein to their imagination, ie. maps of color mixing CMY ma2 like, add more pages of virtual faders, ecc.

    but this would be like, copy something that already exists, or change something that already is a real ... like ma2

    I am for the virtualization of systems, namely:
    you can create a machine in which instead of the numeric keypad and cursors, there is a multi-touch panel, where there are virtualized, buttons, faders, buttons, players, virtual display, in fact, completely eliminate the physical hardware and virtualize throughout a multi-touch, but not inductive resistive touch modules (those that work, even if dirty, as ipad2)


    the idea is to virtualize everything, so that each user can choose the configuration of the virtual control panel, most preferred, for example, today I need 20 sliders, 10 executor buttons, and 1x a/b 1x c/d On another occasion I would serve 40 faders etc., it would be possible with this system is through the standardized profiles, edit in the true sense, the console. but of course this is just a conceptual project, made ​​... mah knows whether it is possible! :-)
  • Matteopio.olivieriMatteopio.olivieri Registered User
    edited April 2011
    Obviously this new machine, I'll have all that now exist in the implementation of systems engineering, art.net port, CITP support, Real Network tracking / backup, multi user system, virtually a completely new system, with a new effect engineer, visualizer, of course, all this, and they need a system processor CPU and GPU than recently, so you can upgrade to a future without hardware problems, virtually reinventing it from zero with the console would EXCLUSIVELY wholehog3 the blue side! ...
  • tadawsontadawson Registered User
    edited April 2011
    While the versatility of a multi-touch config is inarguable, the lack of tactile feedback, at least for me, is a no-deal item on that config. If I can't tell where I am on the console by feel (IE watching the stage) then I am sure that it would drive me nuts!

    - Tim
  • nibornibor Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited April 2011
    I think you are all trying to make the Hog 3 a Grand ma????? like car's consoles all have there application. full boar and H3 are grate platforms to work from,
  • tymontymon Registered User
    edited April 2011
    i don't think we need a hog4 right now, being more or less a wannabe grand ma2. if my shows requires the functionality of grandma2, i go for the real thing, if it doesn't, i take hogIII. if hog4 is to make any sense, it must be designed to stay a top grade console for ten years, keeping the hog style of work and the compact size.
    and, think twice before you make it pink or yellow!
  • tymontymon Registered User
    edited April 2011
    they need a system processor CPU and GPU than recently

    one of the main problems of hogIII is that it never really used the power its gpu's offer.
  • edited April 2011
    tymon wrote: »
    one of the main problems of hogIII is that it never really used the power its gpu's offer.

    Having spent a good portion of the last 18 months tuning the HogIII's video performance for the 3.2 software release, I'd have to say this isn't really true.

    The term "GPU" didn't even exist at the time the graphics chip used in the HogIII was designed.
  • tymontymon Registered User
    edited April 2011
    eric,

    no offence intended. i just remember having, like nine years ago, a little sightseeing in the hog's guts, including trying to run glxgears and reading the x server config file with vi. these days it wasn't /etc/xorg.conf, but something else, don't even remember. i couldn't find a sign of using any graphic acceleration whatsoever. this is where my belief you disagree with was coming from. i am really happy to hear this is no longer true!
  • edited April 2011
    tymon wrote: »
    including trying to run glxgears

    glxgears is an OpenGL performance test. It's used to test the 3D capabilities of an OpenGL based rendering system. The HogIII doesn't support OpenGL at all. Any OpenGL calls would have fallen back to Mesa3D software rendering which is several orders of magnitude slower.

    x11perf is the more appropriate test.
  • tadawsontadawson Registered User
    edited April 2011
    Likely /etc/XF86Config . . . . pretty much the same X Server as XOrg, just a different bundle/distro . . .

    - Tim
  • tymontymon Registered User
    edited April 2011
    x11perf is the more appropriate test.

    right, of course! but anyway, very much to my regret i am no longer in possession of a valid username and password.
  • lumenlumen Registered User
    edited April 2011
    Gpu rendering for spreadsheets and a color picker sounds like an elephant for the mouses job. I'm not really too keen on running video processes from the console, novel as it may be. I will choose a dedicated visualizer or a dedicated media server vs overloading the processing of the desk.

    I have seen the hood up on a maxxys far too many times to wonder why. It reminded me of the time I tried hauling a 2 Ton generator with a 1/2 ton pickup truck. H3 HW seems too old to really mod out. 9 year old computing is a dogs life span.

    Keep working on the software thats where the efficiencies will emerge.
    My old p3 700mhz tower was granted a longer lifespan with each release of AW Maya until it just became a futile maintenance project. Hog 4 should be released once h3 is perfected.
  • tymontymon Registered User
    edited April 2011
    lumen wrote: »
    .I will choose a dedicated visualizer or a dedicated media server vs overloading the processing of the desk.

    good point. i think that designing feature set for hog4 should be done not in the "what other consoles have and hog3 misses" mode, but in the "what other top consoles might be missing the moment hog4 is released" mode. what good is a grandma2 clone, if we can go for the real thing?
  • Joe BleasdaleJoe Bleasdale Registered User
    edited April 2011
    When I started this thread, I didn't realise it was going to get anywhere... let a lot get more than 12,000 views!

    I think Hog 4 should be a mix of the great consoles already on the market, with the Wholehog simplicity and power behind it. IF they do make one, whenever that may be, I would certainly like to see :)

    Thanks,
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited April 2011
    Joe,
    While I understand the purpose of these polls on forums, they completely drive me crazy.
    They never leave the front page, every time anyone votes, it gets kicked back to the top of the forum.
    And since all it is a vote, it doesn't add anything to the "conversation".

    It just seems as if this thread is never going to die, and here I am posting in it, giving it more life yet again...

    Oh well,
    Be well my friend :D

    Joshua Wood
  • Joe BleasdaleJoe Bleasdale Registered User
    edited April 2011
    Hey Joshua,

    When I started it, I didn't think it would last 1 month let alone this long. Sorry for your discomfort.

    Hope your well too ;)

    Thanks.
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited April 2011
    Thanks Joe,
    I think I will survive :D
    Josh
  • B.BertoutB.Bertout Registered User
    edited May 2011
    A Grand master fader separate from others. Motorized faders, more faders, include Macro, a DMX in, the possibility to choose the priority of the programmer...
    The posibility to put an icon for each gobo or color preset.
    Playback buttons.
  • Matteopio.olivieriMatteopio.olivieri Registered User
    edited May 2011
    B.Bertout wrote: »
    A Grand master fader separate from others. Motorized faders, more faders, include Macro, a DMX in, the possibility to choose the priority of the programmer...
    The posibility to put an icon for each gobo or color preset.
    Playback buttons.

    hi, even if it's a bit that I have in my hands a wholehog3, I remember very well that you can set priorities on wholehog3 and macros have already been implemented long ago.
  • tymontymon Registered User
    edited May 2011
    B.Bertout wrote: »
    A Grand master fader separate from others. Motorized faders, more faders, include Macro, a DMX in, the possibility to choose the priority of the programmer...
    The posibility to put an icon for each gobo or color preset.
    Playback buttons.

    sounds like a rough description of grandma1.. which is a discontinued product now as we speak.
  • nibornibor Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited May 2011
    Well my crystal ball says around January of next year you will see a kicking new console out of HES even if it is denied now,
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