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okay, someone help me with a hazer suggestion please!

dmb182dmb182 Registered User
edited July 2008 in Misc. Discussion
Hey guys. I'm looking for a hazer that puts out a VERY fine atmosphere that i can utilize in theatre. Basically a lot of the directors i work with dont want to see "smoke" or "fog" at all, unless during a musical number or dream sequence. I just want a haze that shows up in spot beams and enhances the atmosphere a little. I have a Martin JEM 24/7, and to me it seems like a glorified fogger.

any suggestions? i really dont have a much expearience with atmospherics. How's the DF-50? other suggestions?

Comments

  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited April 2008
    you will probably have the best luck with a df-50 or the probably best option is the MDG Atmosphere.
    Both are good,
    but the DF50 tends to leave residue, and is very loud,
    and the MDG requires a Co2 tank, but it is very quiet.
    Some people like the Lemaitre radiance hazer, but I have not used it.
    I have used the look unique 2, but I find the haze doesn't hang long enough to haze a large room.
    Even with 2 of them.

    of course this is just my .02
    Joshua Wood
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited April 2008
    My personal favourites are:
    MDG Atmosphere
    -expensive, but haze is very good
    -doesn't make things so oily like DF-50
    -personal opinion, the best I've seen

    Look Solution Unique II
    -not so expensive
    -easy to control
    -the haze is not so fine

    We use those two as a combination in our theatre.
    MDG to make fine haze and Unique to make a bit thicker haze.
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited April 2008
    and like Joshua said hang time is not so good with Unique...but sometimes that is a good thing...
  • PuffyfishPuffyfish Registered User
    edited April 2008
    It's all about the propper effect for a particular que. :cool:
    The df-50 does make some noise so I turn it on a couple of hours before the gig then off at showtime. It hangs for hours sometimes depending on the HVAC installed.
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited April 2008
    Yea, but I hate pulling apart xspot lenses to clean the haze off of them..
    all my tours run df-50's though, so I am used to it now.
    it seems it only takes a year or so before the unsealed lenses start looking like crap.
    Joshua Wood
  • eboxereboxer Registered User
    edited April 2008
    For theatrical applications i prefer the atomosphere. One thing to keep in mind is the performers comfort.
  • dmb182dmb182 Registered User
    edited April 2008
    thanks for all the help. So, again to me the Jem's haze is way to dense and smokey. It appears that for the effect i want, i need a oil based machine. Everyone i've spoken to has recommended the DF-50, but also remarked about the residue. How bad is the residue? Like, after one show will my amps and boards be coated? or are we talking long term effects?
  • ChrisTallChrisTall Registered User, DL Beta
    edited April 2008
    I believe the Lemaitre Radiance Hazer (the way it works) is better than the DF-50 at NOT coating your equipment.

    Cat
  • PuffyfishPuffyfish Registered User
    edited April 2008
    dmb182 wrote:
    thanks for all the help. So, again to me the Jem's haze is way to dense and smokey. It appears that for the effect i want, i need a oil based machine. Everyone i've spoken to has recommended the DF-50, but also remarked about the residue. How bad is the residue? Like, after one show will my amps and boards be coated? or are we talking long term effects?

    1 show? Na. Weeks, yes, but not coated.

    Yo Joshua Wood! What are you using to take the lenses apart?:dunno:
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited April 2008
    Same one as you puffy,
    http://forums.highend.com/showthread.php?t=2482
    it works about half the time, the other half, I can't get the front ring out, and had to give up on that, and for those I use long q-tips, and alcohol,
    seems to work ok, it is a bit time consuming though... and it can be tough not to leave streaks behind..

    I really want to use zep for it, but since it contains ammonia, I am skeptical if I should use it or not...
    http://webfiles.acuitysp.com/psr/zeppsr/psr_0144.PDF

    I have used it a few times, and it worked way better than straight alcohol, but I don't know if it damaged the coating in any way...
    It doesn't seem to have, but you never know....

    Joshua Wood
  • MadogMadog Registered User
    edited April 2008
    If you're looking for some dry reading, AEA has done pretty extensive research on the effects of different atmospheric products. It's geared more toward a health and safety standpoint but you may be able to find some useful info about how long various haze products linger and how dense they are.

    http://www.actorsequity.org/library/library.asp?cat=33
  • JEmanuelJEmanuel Registered User
    edited April 2008
    I use the LeMaitre Radiance Hazer and it works well. Trick is to run it well in advance of the show on a low setting to let the haze run through the room without becoming dense. If you put the hazer on full blast then it'll fog the room with dense smoke but as long as you give it the time it needs you'll have your fine haze. Also helps that it is water based, so it's safe for everyone (they even have a 15 page document on the website that proves it) and my favorite part other than the haze it creates is it runs on less than 6 amps.
  • bigdarkspotbigdarkspot Registered User
    edited May 2008
    I've used the 24/7, the DF50, and, believe it or not, an HES Nebula.

    The 24/7 works well, but you're right, it's just a little fogger with a fan. I believe the radiance works the same way, but i've heard better things about it than the Jem.

    The DF50 is the big boy of the bunch, but it's hard to get the right amount of haze in the room (especially in smaller rooms) and keep it there, since its pretty much on or off.

    I like the Nebula, actually. Wish they still made the water based fluid for it. It works like a DF50 (compression based, as opposed to heat based), but was designed to use a special water/glycol fluid that cannot be procured any longer. It does seem to work OK with DF50 fluid though (but that negates the advantage of the water based fluid).
  • TimMillerTimMiller Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Many venues freak out over oil based fluid due to it messes up CO (carbon monoxide) sensors and sets them off. I really like the atmospheres, but its all a problem of oil based fog. I heard they have a water based fluid for the DF-50 now.

    BTW, I have a brand new never been opened bottle of Nebula fluid in the shop. Will sell to the highest offer :D.
  • joshster82joshster82 Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Water based fluid for the df-50 works well. it makes a little finer haze then the oil based and leaves a little less residue. its something like 49% oil. technically it's oil-less
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited May 2008
    I haven't used it (yet) although I have heard the hang time is nothing compared to the oil fluid, if you are hazing arenas, this could be a problem.
    Joshua Wood
  • joshster82joshster82 Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Yeah that may be true i only have a couple mins of hang time but i do have intense HVAC
  • zafflaxzafflax Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Lemaitre Radiance Hazer is the best hazer in my mind (only used this one actually :) ) but with the remote and supplied hanging bracket i think its the best bang for your buck. I use it in a theatre with many people that dont want that smoke look (including my TD who happens to be my father, leads to wonderful nights i might add). As mentioned above, run it low to kind of "pre-game" the room. But works great in my mind..
  • dmb182dmb182 Registered User
    edited May 2008
    now i'm confused as to go with the radiance or df-50.

    this isnt a money thing, i'm fine with that, both are in price range.

    It's oil negatives vs is the radiance capable of a fine enough mist.

    Some have said it's compareable to the JEM. if that's true, then i'm out. I'm not looking for that at all. I need a haze capable machine.

    i think i'm going to go with the df-50 as that it's proven and i dont think most of the shows i do are long enough runs to be affected by the residue anyways.

    So to those that have used the df-50, what's the maintence like? And i can find this thing online used for 1400 in places. IS THAT WORTH IT? new seems to start near 2500 so if i can save 11 hundred dollars, well, that's something isnt it?
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited May 2008
    If the compressor in a DF-50 goes bad, you might as well throw it away,
    the replacement will cost you as much as a new hazer..
    there isn't much to repair in a df-50, drain the water trap.....
    thats pretty much it, if it is much beyond that, time to replace it.

    Joshua Wood
  • TimMillerTimMiller Registered User
    edited May 2008
    The DF 50 is extremely loud I personally do not like them due to the noise and oil mess. The radiance from what I saw at a convention and from what I hear from friends it works extremely well. I like my antari x310 but its more of the smokey haze.
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited May 2008
    My all time favortie....get an F-100...put a fan behind it and run it at about 10%...as long as you have a good fan, you'll have good haze.....with the added bonus of being able to crank it up for a smoke effect.
  • WCM ChrisWCM Chris Registered User
    edited May 2008
    There is a new hazer on the market here in states.

    http://www.hazebase.com/

    The ICD guys are selling them. Think DF-50, but with options. Changable fan rate and changable pump rate. DMX on board. Sips fluid.

    Very nice unit.
  • tadawsontadawson Registered User
    edited May 2008
    WCM Chris wrote:
    There is a new hazer on the market here in states.

    http://www.hazebase.com/

    The ICD guys are selling them. Think DF-50, but with options. Changable fan rate and changable pump rate. DMX on board. Sips fluid.

    Very nice unit.

    I looked at Hazebase at LDI, and it appeared to be the same exact internals as the Unique in a different case. Even the control panel was dead-on identical. Considering that both claim to be from Germany, I suspect a common mfg. upstream.

    - Tim
  • lightbrightlightbright Registered User
    edited July 2008
    I use a Radiance and I love it, dmx control is key for me.

    Do any of you have reccomendations for outdoor hazing? Currently I'm using the Radiance in an upstage corner and a small fogger in the other upstage corner. This works great as long as there isn't excessive wind.
    I'm thinking about getting another Radiance and using one in each upstage corner.
    I've seen someone use two DF-50s, one at each downstage corner facing in and a Radiance next to the drummer facing downstage. This looked great, but I can't afford 2 Df 50s.

    What do you all do out doors?
  • TimMillerTimMiller Registered User
    edited July 2008
    I use a couple of F-100's for outside shows. Keeps the stage smoked, even in Corpus Christi (very windy)
  • lightbrightlightbright Registered User
    edited July 2008
    how is the F-100 on fluid consumption? And how does it compare to the Radiance? Since they're in the same price range, I"m wondering which would be better. Seems like you can also use the F-100 for fine haze. Why don't more people use F-100s inside?
  • TimMillerTimMiller Registered User
    edited July 2008
    The F-100 uses fluid like a big engine, take it easy and it lasts for a long time, keep it hammered down and it will begin to drink. The fog from an F-100 doesnt hang around as long as something like a DF50 or MDG, but when it comes to water based, i believe the fog/haze from it will hang around just as long as any other.
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