Touring and Change Fixture Type questions

Hi,
I'll try to answer.
Do you have to recreate your groups every-time you move into a new venue?
No if you program a show and you use spot/was/beam fixtures then any groups that you have will have changed type. So if you started with fixtures 101-110 (Robe spots for example) and you change type to Martin Vipers they become 101-110.

If you have a rig that has more of one type of fixture than the day before, Which fixtures do you copy?
I try to copy spot fixtures to spots/wash to wash/beam to beam/LED to LED and so on.
I try to use as many fixtures from my original show programming as possible.

Do you have to recreate all your effects if you have something specific like a dim chase that goes from the middle of a truss outwards?
No, If you change type and you have the same amount of fixtures you shouldn't have to alter the effects.
That said fixtures have certain characteristics. Shutters/Colours/Gobos differ from fixture to fixture so effects can look different and may need to be edited.

When I start a show I know I am going to have to change type on I try to keep that in mind from the off.
A good habit is to try and name your fixtures in a way that makes sense to you so no matter how many fixtures you are using you are always changing type to the correct fixture.
For example.
Spots 101>110 would always be the most upstage spot fixtures in a rig from stage right to stage left.
Wash 2001-2016 would always be the most downstage wash fixtures running from stage right to stage left.
So if you arrive in a venue which only has 8 spot fixtures you might change type 102>109 and ignore the end fixtures 101+ 110 depending on how you programmed the original show.

Always use palettes to program the show. Editing and updating palettes is a much easier way to keep a show intact rather than having to go through every cue and try to figure out where or what you did yesterday,

Have a master show that you start with and can go back to if everything gets a bit much and you decide you want to go back to a show you know works.

Try to keep in mind when programming the original or master show what will happen if in a few days you have a
show with completely different fixtures.
Sometimes its more desirable to have a show that clones/changes type perfectly with less information and complexity that a very complicated show that doesn't clone/change type at all.

C

Cheers! I understand the groups when they are the same number of fixtures but if I'm copying fixtures because I need to add lets say more spots for instance, Do I need to recreate my groups then?

Also for effects if I've got more fixtures than I did the day before, Am I going to have to recreate my effects?

For adding fixtures, your best bet is to "REPLICATE FIXTURES."

So, as Cormac said, if you have 10 spots on a truss in your original show and the new one has 12…I would "replicate" the center 2 and have them on the "ends" of the truss so that it loops around (hope that makes sense).

EX:
101 / 102 / 103 / 104 / 105 / 106 / 107 / 108 / 109 / 110 on a truss
I would replicate 105 and 106 (giving 12 total) and renumber them as 100 / 111 (again, depends on what point you want to add them in) - this keeps ALL of the programming for 105 and 106 and puts the "new" fixtures on the ends of the truss. Because they copied 105 and 106, they will be in the groups and effects…but you may have to do slight adjustments if needed.

Does that help?

You've had some good advice there.

I'd just add that if you replicate fixtures to increase your fixture count for a show, then you will have to add these new fixtures into your groups as that will not happen automatically. Also, if your fixture count reduces you may want to remove the non-existent ones from your groups otherwise you will have issues with fanning, grouping and buddying when focusing.

Also, remember that you can replicate then change type. If you turn up at a venue which has some led pars being used for some structural lighting (internal building features, PA scrims at a festival etc.) then you could replicate your wash fixtures, then change type to the led fixtures to quickly include these extra units in your show.

As Cormac said above, if you know your show is going to be run on many different rigs with different fixture types it is sensible to bear this in mind when doing your initial programming. Use parameters and effects that will be available everywhere you go, there's no point using fancy beam effects in a VL3500 Wash FX (for example) if most of the time you're going to have basic wash fixtures that cannot duplicate that.

Whatever happens, there will be some touching up to do. Gobo palettes will need to be updated. I find it best to include ALL gobo wheels in palettes, so if your look originally uses a gobo from wheel 1 but you now have to use fixtures where the most appropriate gobo is in wheel 2 then you only have to update the palette rather than editing cues. If you are preprogramming in a visualiser, then it can be useful to use a VL3000 initially as it has three gobo wheels. If you use a fixture with only two, then if you have to use a fixture with three the third will not appear in your cues as it was not in the original palette.

In a similar vein, moving from CMY to a fixed colour wheel can introduce issues. If the original fixture had no colour wheel then there is no data for it in the palettes and cues, so you will find your fixtures in white in all cues even after updating the palettes. I'd love to see this addressed in a future software update.

And again, going from a RGB LED fixture to RGBW, RGBWA etc your palettes and cues will only contain data for RGB, not the extra available colours. You need to either program originally with fixtures containing all options, or just resign yourself to just only RGB in all fixtures - which to be honest works fine 99% of the time.

I've heard of people creating their own "meta fixtures"for pre-programming that contain every possible parameter. Light Converse would be good to use for this as you can build your own fixtures in it. You then create the fixture profile in Hog and program your base show from that. This means you have data for all parameters (multiple gobo wheels, every imaginable shade of LED etc) in your show file so changing type will work for anything that gets thrown at you. Haven't tried this myself yet but I can see the logic init.

Hope this helps and doesn't just confuse!

Leggy.

One more thing....
Remember that just because fixtures are present in a house rig, it doesn't mean you have to use them. Depending on how your show is programmed you may decide that you only need a certain amount to recreate your carefully constructed show. Many times I've decided to just not use fixtures as they are superfluous to my requirements - although often it's best to replicate your originals to include these extras and take a look. It only takes a second to park them at zero if you decide they are unnecessary.

Amazing you lot! Thank you so much. It's something I can't really find anything on. So finding out everyone's different way of doing things is always a great starting point!