Hog 3 fixture builder

JeffMJeffM Registered User
I don't get out here on the forums very often at all so this may have been covered already.
After consulting with techs at HES, it seems to be necessary to send an email in to have a fixture library created for a moving light.
As we as designers/programmers do our craft, most of us have a burning desire for more knowledge within the industry and try and stay up to date with the technology we work with. With that said; I am at a loss for reasons behind having to have someone else do something we are quite capable of doing ourselves given the proper tools and knowledge.
Rather than have to make phone calls after hours for tech support while trying to write a profile on the console or having to send in the channel/dmx value information to some library creator guru; why not make the fixture builder actually work or if it does, how about some clear cut info on how to properly use it?
My thoughts are if it has it, make it work. If it doesn't work; take it off the console entirely.
Is it suppose to be some sort of trade secret on how to write a profile correctly so it works?
Every time I have called to get help with this feature of the console I am met with the same general answer. Has issues. While trying to use it, many times it causes the console to lose the desktop and it has to either be restarted or complete reboot of Hog 3.
If there is someone with insite on how to make this area of the console work, let me know. If not; Someone please don't let this be like the X-spot and many other pieces of equipment that are left half finished only to fade away with a slow death. Finish it! Pretty Please..... :1zhelp:


  • schnerchischnerchi Registered User
    edited November 2009

    The fixture builder is a mess. Are there plans to fix it? I mean.... there must be a working fixture builder inhouse at HighEnd. Regardless how good Steve Denim is at providing fixtures, sometimes we need to fix things on location.

    So, please fix this damn fixture builder.... after all it should not be a HUGE problem... or is it?
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited November 2009
    It really does have to do with the complexity of building libraries using the abstract fixture model.

    You will get the best results with the fixture builder if you use it in Hog3PC on a laptop and then transfer your show to a console.

    While it does have quite a few bugs, the fixture builder is really not all that difficult to use, and the manual lays it out pretty clearly in my opinion. In my 6 years or so using the Hog-3 I've only ever been in the position of needing to build my own fixture about 7 or 8 times.....and everytime I was able to get a working profile built without that much trouble.

    HES is pretty good about turning profiles around quickly.....just look at a bunch of the responses from Steve here on the forums.

    I would put this very low on the development "totem-pole" as I think there are much more pressing things that should be developed first. Rather than improving an already basically functional part of the software.

    Just my opinion though.
  • spcentralspcentral Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited November 2009
    I haven't ever had much trouble figuring out how to build a fixture in the past. When I had some free time I have just looked at fixtures that High End has build and I tend to use those as a place to learn about all the specifics at building a fixture.

    Over time the fixture builder has gotten much better and the improvements have made it more stable than it was in earlier releases. I agree with Marty that there are more important things that need to be addressed first.
  • schnerchischnerchi Registered User
    edited November 2009
    Well...... I had no luck with the fixture builder reagarding stability... Half of the time I tried to use it, it simply crashed. Software was 3.0.5 on a RH FB.....

    My point is : It is not good to have something inside the software, that has the ability to constantly crash it. For new users of the HOG 3, this is just madness. I know that you can build your fixures with it. (start a new show, or use HOG3PC on your laptop and then merge them into your showfile) But it is far from being perfect.

    But : I agree that there are other important things to fix.... so maybe we have to live with this fixture builder a little bit longer :-)
  • reifaelreifael Registered User
    edited November 2009
    schnerchi wrote: »
    Well...... I had no luck with the fixture builder reagarding stability... Half of the time I tried to use it, it simply crashed. Software was 3.0.5 on a RH FB.....

    ...maybe you are really unlucky...but nearly everybody, who talled me about crashes, using the fixture builder, didn´t know, that before starting the fixture builder ALL WINDOWS should be closed...

    ...during the last software versions, i had no problems with my full boar ...

  • JeffMJeffM Registered User
    edited November 2009
    You will get the best results with the fixture builder if you use it in Hog3PC on a laptop and then transfer your show to a console.

    I have experienced crashes and no other programs were running other than Hog 3. My PC runs LD Assistant with visualization and has the ram and processing to run without locking up or crashing. I am sure it can handle what little ole Hog 3 software can dish out.
    When adding additional DMX values to same channel as in slots for Gobos or any other multi parameter channel information, it puts up an error message and will not save the information to the library file. As long as I use the 0-255 values, it likes it. If I have slot 1 is dmx 15 and real % 5 It sometimes likes it and sometimes not. If I have more than 1 or 2 slots in a single channel, it doesn't like the values and will not save.
    I am using Hog 3 to look at the values as I make the build. So if the values are wrong, they are wrong in the software because that is where I am getting them.
    And FYI. The fixture that I am creating this for came from China. (not my deal) I was asked to make it work. The manual for it is of no help other than channel 1 is pan and so on. No values to go from. no charts ect....
    So I have made the charts by having the fixture patched as 24 desk channels and running each one through the entire 0-255 range and documenting it all. Then with this information, attempting to build the fixture. Seams like a no brainer, but the builder craps out or refused to allow the information to be saved.
    I even tried having the channel slots in different order (top to bottom or bottom to top), Makes no difference.
    If I was doing this in vista and it was crapping out, I would be expecting problems, but I am using XP. :dunno:
  • ryanBryanB Registered User
    edited November 2009
    reifael wrote: »
    ...maybe you are really unlucky...but nearly everybody, who talled me about crashes, using the fixture builder, didn´t know, that before starting the fixture builder ALL WINDOWS should be closed...

    You have to have the patch window open to enter the fixture builder - ALL windows cannot be closed.

    I have had to build a few fixtures in the past with the fixture builder and yes closing all the other windows is a HUGE deal. The builder gets very unhappy with other windows open.

    I would like the fixture builder to work better, but what I would really like is access to the engine used by Steve to make fixtures.

    I would also like the ability to add user definable entries in the fixture builder - something I can change what it called... Steve D. will appreciate this idea (maybe) after building the Speedwire profile for me. There wasn't anything sensible to call some of the parameters for that fixture in the fixture builder and the control options did not necessarily make the most sense for it either.

    I did notice an issue with the fixture builder when using it yesterday - when adding and deleting new dmx entries it did not always add or delete from the appropriate line as selected in the fixture builder - it was deleting entries from 3 lines below where I -thought- I had it selected. I tried this a number of times a number of different ways and had the same basic result every time. Same thing when adding a line in the builder.
  • MarcoMarco Registered User
    edited January 2010
    direct questions on HES.
    -What is the Problem with the Fixturebuilder? Why it not realy works?
    -Why is not the engine on the H3, with HE makes Fixtures for H3

  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited January 2010
    Hi Marco,

    It is true that the Fixture builder has some known bugs, however it can work well if you are creating a simple fixture and following the directions in the manual. With more complex fixtures such a media servers or multiple cell LEDs it does have trouble.

    We have an excellent system in place to quickly create fixture libraries when requested. In most cases customers have enough advance notice of the fixtures required that they can have a proper library built. The fixture builder comes in handy in those instances where you arrive on site and find a rare fixture that is not in the library. Then a simple library can be created and used. However it is not intended to replace the creation of proper libraries from our team.

    The full "engine" to make proper fixture libraries is rather complex due to the generic fixture library model. This is a rather complex system that requires vast knowledge of existing fixtures and the protocol for using existing parameters. It is this generic model that provides the ease of programming, cloning, replicating, change type and more functionality that we all enjoy.

    We do have some plans for the near future to improve our fixture library system and provide more features that will allow more user definable labels (much like what Ryan B wants) and more. We are planning a rework of the library system to provide many improvements throughout the console and hope to make more information available as we get closer to a release of these changes.

    In the mean time, if you need a fixture library either post in the fixture request area of this forum or email hoglibraries@barco.com

    thanks for your understanding,
  • RobertoRoberto Registered User
    Hi i am new here .
    I am a hog 2 user .
    And i just bought a hog 3 .
    En de hog 2 whas real easy to build the fixtures .
    But with the hog 3 it's complete abracadabra for me .
    I could name the parameters in the most form .
    But the 3 uses preprogrammed parameters and i am not getting any further with the explaining of the fixture builder tutorial .
    Ik hope i can learn something here.
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