Lamp Off Won't Stay Off

loebusloebus Registered User
I have a brand new Full Boar, with 40 brand new moving heads, and I'm getting some weird business happening with my control, most specifically Lamp Off commands.
The last three times I've tried to lamp off my arc units after a show, they have lamped off correctly, then lamped right back on after I cleared the programmer. They were definite lamp offs, not just closed shutters/dousers. First I Pig-Released all cues. Then I would lamp off a group, wait 10 or more seconds, clear the programmer, and they would pop right back on. This would happen regardless of lamp/fixture type.
Tonight I tried it 5 or 6 times with the same results, then rebooted the desk.
Same problem, but now they wouldn't lamp off at all. Then I lost all control of the fixtures for a couple of minutes, then the faders with intensity would work but I couldn't grab anything in the programmer (the values would change on the encoders, but the fixtures didn't respond), then the programmer came back online. But I still couldn't lamp off fixtures. During this time I opened the launched processes window a number of times, and all processes appeared to be running normally.
I rebooted the desk a second time, and everything was back to normal. I was able to lamp off the fixtures without issue, and they stayed lamped off.
Again, this has happened three shows in a row, so it appears to be a regularly occurring issue and not just a one time fluke. I was afraid I had perhaps somehow recorded a lamp on command into a cue, but I had released all cues just prior each time, and I'm not sure even how that would be possible with the Hog's control interface.

Comments

  • but0017but0017 Registered User
    edited May 2009
    is it a possibility that its not actually the console and it being the fixtures themselves, most arc lamp moving heads have a function that it lamps on when it receives dmx. What kind of moving heads are they?

    Branden
  • cormacjackcormacjack Registered User, DL Beta
    edited May 2009
    Are you trying to lamp off different fixture types with the same command?
    I think the lamp off issue and the console issue are unconnected and just happened
    At the same time.
    What version of software are you running?
    What are the fixtures you are trying to lamp off.

    Best c
  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited May 2009
    Brooke,

    As the others have asked, what version software are you running, what fixtures are you using, and how is your data distributed to the fixtures?

    I often send multiple lamp off commands to various fixtures at a time without problems. You could also send me your show file at http://upload.highend.com and we can see if there is anything in your show file that stands out...
  • sandersander Registered User
    edited May 2009
    for claypaky stagezoom and robert juliat d'artagnan the control-douse seems not to work either, after clear the robert becomes idle in the output, and strikes again; the stage zoom strikes because it gets dmx,after dousing. to work around, you can park the fixtures after the douse command (and shut down the console, anf after startup, the fixtures remain in their parked state.
  • prmuchaprmucha Registered User
    edited May 2009
    I have seen this happen when you have "fade changes" in the programmer selected. It really is annoying, but if you turn off the "fade changes" option (assuming this is your problem), the movers lamp off. At least, I've seen it work like that. Maybe this is a bug??
  • prmuchaprmucha Registered User
    edited May 2009
    Maybe I should pull my foot out of my mouth and read the whole post before thinking! Ha! Well, that's a bigger deal than I thought.

    Either way, Brad, is the fade changes part a bug or because it's sending it in a time, (and fading in, not just responding to an immediate change), that they will not lamp off in that case?
  • loebusloebus Registered User
    edited May 2009
    Hmm, you know I very well could have had fade changes on. I will have to check that out.
    At any rate, the software is v3.0.3, and the offending fixtures are all Martin (Mac III, 2K Wash, 700 Wash, 700 Profile). Again, this is an intermittent issue, and I haven't had trouble with it before recently, so I think we can safely rule out fixture setting. Data is split between three universes sent 250' via standard 5-pin XLR to Fleenor DMX distro boxes, then to the fixtures via 5 separate home runs.
    Brad, I had just read your PLSN article about making smooth live adjustments during a show using (I had to guess, your article being as always frustratingly console agnostic) fade changes in the programmer, which I don't typically have enabled. So there is a very good chance that was on. Doesn't explain the other, more serious loss of output problem, but that only happened the once and could be more of a fluke.
  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited May 2009
    We currently do not have a bug logged regarding fade changes and control commands, but we will test this today and log any appropriate bugs. This could very well be the problem that you are seeing.

    In regards to the loss of output from the programmer, I think it is because you are running v3.0.3, where we had just that bug. In version 3.0.4 we did fix a problem where the programmer would sometimes not output upon startup (and you did mention that you had just rebooted). You probably ran into this bug.
  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited May 2009
    I have been testing with fade changes on and do NOT see it affecting control settings at all. In all cases the data changes instantly when using control changes. I tried with a variety of fixtures as well. So I am not convinced that this problem is due to fade changes.

    Please send me your show file that exhibits this problem so we can take a further look. You can send to to me at http://upload.highend.com

    thanks,
  • prmuchaprmucha Registered User
    edited May 2009
    brad

    Did you see it with real fixtures or though the software? I've seen it every time I've tried to lamp off when I have fade changes active. It's not usually every fixture, but always seems to happen to me.

    Pat
  • prmuchaprmucha Registered User
    edited May 2009
    Also, my problem with fade changes is with mac 700's specifically when ive noticed it. I can't say I remember it happening any other time,but it may have with other fixtures.
  • RobbieGRobbieG Registered User
    edited May 2009
    odd maybe, but i'm going to jump on with Patrick here, happens to me all the time with fade changes left on.

    control commands work fine in the afternoon, switch fade changes on for the show then I can't douse certain fixtures at the end.

    Some will, sorry to be vague, some will close their shutters (as part of the lamp off function), but when the programmer is cleared (or control sent to idle) the lamps remain on.

    Have also had lamps re-strike, after being doused with lampoff, on clearing the programmer, as if the control channel had faded through lampon on it way back to fixture idle.

    have just worked around by turning fade changes off before but as Brad says i would have thought this should not matter.

    cheers
  • prmuchaprmucha Registered User
    edited May 2009
    Rob-

    Completely agree, it should not matter, but it seems to definitely.

    I have noticed the exact same things as you. Sometimes you get shutters to close, sometimes lamps off, sometimes lamps back on once you clear the programmer. But never anything really strange like a reset or the like, which would be running through a series of DMX commands, just seems to not want to lamp off and/or stay lamped off.

    Either way, glad I'm not the only one seeing it, or otherwise losing my mind...which really, I wouldn't doubt either!
  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited May 2009
    Ah HA...

    This looks to be fixture dependent. I have found that with a Mac 700 extended I can create the problem you guys describe with fade changes on and pressing Clear after lamp dousing. I see the DMX value change to the lamp on value before going to idle. I do not see this problem with all fixtures however. I have logged bug #12838 about this problem.

    thanks,
  • prmuchaprmucha Registered User
    edited May 2009
    Thanks Brad. I'll keep an eye out for any other fixtures I come across that have problem with fade changed turned on.
  • loebusloebus Registered User
    edited May 2009
    As I mentioned, my rig consists of Mac IIIs, Mac 2K Washes, 700 Profiles and 700 Washes. So I'm guessing this is at least specific to all current Martin automated fixtures.
  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited May 2009
    Steve Denim completed some further testing with this bug and reports the following:

    I took the following fixtures, Martin MAC 2000 Profile, MAC 500 m4 gobo scroll,
    MAC 700 Profile extended and Clay Paky Alphabeam 14ch all of which I could
    repro this bug with.

    All the MAC fixtures have their lamp control channel share with other functions
    so I also patched the Clay Paky fixture which has a dedicated lamp control for
    comparison.

    It seems when 'Fade Changes' is enabled and 'Lamp Douse' is the active
    function/feature clearing the programmer will always snap to and assert the
    'Lamp Strike' DMX value briefly before snapping to the idle value.

    The quick workaround is to select 'Fixture Idle' after performing the 'Lamp
    Douse' and the programmer seems clear correctly. While this is clearly still a
    bug, users should probably get into the habit of returning the fixture to an
    'Idle' state after performing any fixture or lamp control operations.
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