color blaze question

dmb182dmb182 Registered User
edited February 2009 in Misc. Discussion
any one know the difference between the first version colorblaze's and the current ones? i often times see color blazes advertised as "the orginal model". Just wondering what the difference is?

Comments

  • eboxereboxer Registered User
    edited February 2009
    As far as I know there isn't a "new" model- It's possible that people refer to them as a brand (think Kleenex as opposed tissue). It's also possible there could be a reference to size.
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited February 2009
    There have been several different versions of the LED used in that fixture,
    Newer ones are a bit brighter, and will not match the older versions.
    Joshua Wood
  • JlitterioJlitterio Registered User
    edited February 2009
    dmb182 wrote: »
    any one know the difference between the first version colorblaze's and the current ones? i often times see color blazes advertised as "the orginal model". Just wondering what the difference is?

    There are two differences bewteen the old and new version. We own both so I come across this all the time.

    The First variation, which i consider to be a major improvement, is the feet an yoke assembly. The first generation had a yoke with a slide bolt through it to adjust tilt (see pictures below). The slide has a tendancy to bend and disfigure which makes it near impossible to have a smooth tilt adjustment, especialy when using them as floor fixtures. The new generation when to a friction system sliding on the outside of a yoke so that is does not get caught between two pieces of metal.

    The second variation has already been stated. The brightness of the second generation is brighter. Also, since we have purchased these in groups, we have found that the color variation of the leds changes with each different group. What we have found is that when purchasing, you want to make sure that all the units were manufactured out of the same bin number so that all the leds are the same type and made at the same time. Trust me.... when doing a long cyc wash it DOES make a difference for all of them to display the same color correctly.

    Hope this helps.
  • prmuchaprmucha Registered User
    edited February 2009
    I have seen the color differences mainly in the blue LED's personally. You get more or less green in the blue LED which is completely visible, as Justin pointed out, on a white cyc especially or in a camera situation.
  • JlitterioJlitterio Registered User
    edited February 2009
    I agree with you Patrick, it is mainly in the blue Leds. I have been trying to figure out if there is anyway to get into the light and manually calibrate the the intensities of the RGB to get it at least a little closer to the right temperature of the rest of the fixtures. But to no avail, I have been hitting walls all the way.

    The only fix i have going for me right now is to place the newer/older Color blaze in a seperate group and mix the colors seperate from the main group then save that into the same color pallett as the main group. It is a little time consuming but it does actualy work quite well if you stick to your palletts.
  • prmuchaprmucha Registered User
    edited February 2009
    Sometimes I add a bit of green (or red if the case may be, but usually green) to the unit(s) that have the temperature problems in the base values. But really, I agree, if you just mix the different groups as separate entities, you get decent results. I did read about the Colorbug unit from Ocean Optics.

    Maybe that can be a future hog update in a newer console (or different software) to be able to take that information internally for a calibration of the LED's from something that finds the exact color temperature in terms of RGB or HS.

    Hint hint HES :)
  • dmb182dmb182 Registered User
    edited February 2009
    thanks for clearing that up guys. while i have your attention on the matter, how are the colorblazes? I've got a bunch of CB12TR's and love them. Use the city theatrical power supplies so set up is a breeze. Work great for one off corperate events and such, but i've suprisingly (to myself anyways) worked them in to festival concert's on the upstage truss for effects as well. In theatre i've used them as washes from above battens and had a lot of success as far as an unlimited color wash.

    The reason i'm looking at the color blaze is i'd like a fixture that can light sails, back drops, and hopefully cycs. Now i know they're probably not gonna punch like a conventional cyc light, but if i've got a 20 feet tall cyc and light it from above with colorblazes will i be okay? It's a fairly deep stage most of the time so i'm able to keep my conventionals shuttered off of the cyc.

    finally, as far as the differences in the color blazes LED's, is the differnce in brightness extreme? I've looked up the luminosity charts on both and it doesnt seem to be to drastic as far as overall brightness. I wouldnt want to end up with two different types i understand that, but if i can get the original model for a good deal is that something i should consider?
  • prmuchaprmucha Registered User
    edited February 2009
    Well, I've used blazes on cyc's multiple times (in a corporate setting mind you, but a cyc is a cyc), and the various other situations you're talking about. A few things to keep in mind about the blazes. I assume you're using the CB touring models with the frosted glass? The clear glass that comes standard and only on the colorblazes is very linear. City Theatrical makes a really nice lens that spreads the beam out, but you will not get the coverage out of the stock lens that you're thinking. Normally, to do a full-length cyc, you have to have a full length of the blazes to make it all look right....minimal gaps. This is because of the linear nature, and really, if you put one in a dark room, on a white wall, you will not see much difference. So yes, best cyc wash that I've seen, freaking brighter than hell even at the 20' mark, and as long as you give them some room to let the LED's mix, you will never see the mixing, so it's so nice and even. Also, you will get your great mixing that you experienced from the touring blasts (or standard blasts).

    This all comes to the brightness in conventionals. Normally, when I'm lighting for camera (so brighter lights), the cyc has to be turned down or the front wash turned up in order to make the back wash go down significantly enough to make it look less of any color. I think in any theatrical situation, you will have so much punch, you will nearly blind the audience! :) Hell, I know guys who use the blazes as blinders (but don't get me wrong, they're not mole fays). I personally find the blazes a brigher wash, but that's because the LED's are tighter together and more focused without the frosted glass. Also, as they're one big 6' or 4' piece, they just are more bang for the buck without gaps.

    One little word as well on the other fixtures out there too. There are many LED batten fixtures including the Selador fixtures. Look into those too. I've heard their color mixing is without compare (as they use 7 separate LED colors). However, they are hard to control using the Hog (look up based on the keyword Selador). You will find that HS controls don't work on them because the system is only thinking in 3 colors, not all 7. So really, you get half a dozen of one, 6 of the other.

    Hope that helps.
  • JlitterioJlitterio Registered User
    edited February 2009
    Again im going to agree with Patrick. The color blaze are Excellent cyc wash lights. I had them on a comedy tour for 8 montsh as a floor cyc wash. The best way to set these up as a cyc is to keep them 2 to 4 inches off the cyc and point them striaght up (or down if you want them on a batten). The linear out put lets you focus almost all the light on the cyc and have almost no intesity drop as you travel the height of the cyc. Also because they are such a tight focus with the clear lens, there is almost no spill off of the cyc. I was lighting a 40' high cyc with no problem, I actually had to drop the intensity to about 50% so it did not blow out the Cameras, and even at that, to the naked eye it was rich with color and popped out very well.

    The down side to the linear output, as Patrick has said, is that you have to keep minimal gaps between fixtures or else you will see little black gaps. 4" is about as far as you would dare to seperate fixtures.

    I had a mix of old and new fixtures out on the tour and the intensity was not that big of an issues. At least since I really never had them at full except when programming.


    AS for you Patrick, I have used them as blinders but would put them vertical and seperated them into 12 fixture mode and could do some cool chases and scrolling effects. They are actualy a very versitile light.
  • JlitterioJlitterio Registered User
    edited February 2009
    dmb182 wrote: »
    The reason i'm looking at the color blaze is i'd like a fixture that can light sails, back drops, and hopefully cycs. Now i know they're probably not gonna punch like a conventional cyc light, but if i've got a 20 feet tall cyc and light it from above with colorblazes will i be okay? It's a fairly deep stage most of the time so i'm able to keep my conventionals shuttered off of the cyc.


    Forgot about this one.... Actualy, I was using the Color blaze with 1200W fixtures and Still had to turn them down. The reason is that because of the LEDs, you get such a rich color with no Intesity Drop.
  • prmuchaprmucha Registered User
    edited February 2009
    As Justin put it, great lights..great output. Do it man, do it! :)

    Thanks for the heads up on the blinders Justin. I know I get blinded when I look at them, and I figured as much. I had heard of them as blinders, BUT wasn't sure how well they really would work. I'll have to try that sometime!
  • dmb182dmb182 Registered User
    edited February 2009
    You guys have been awesome! thanks for the help. And yes i was referring earlier to the colorblast 12TR's with frosted lens.

    I've got a 36 wide cyc basicaly (40 but the ends kind of reach off stage). So i'm thinking i need 36 feet of colorblaze than. so 6 of the 6 footers or 9 of the 4 footers? I'm thinking the 4 footers because i'll be able to work them into a lot of small venues and corperate gigs as well.

    I'm aware of the Selador units and yes they are pretty much awesome. However the price tag is less awesome. LED fixtures on the whole are still a little bit unreasonably priced (in my opinion anyways). The happy medium between Selador and Chauvet seems to be Color Kinetics (now phillips branded). I dont think High End is ever going to tackle the strip light market and color kinetics has a proven track record so i'm gonna go with them. while they lack amber and other colors, i'm not worried because I'm always going to have conventionals in these rigs as well. Besides, i like incorperating different color temperatures as part of the design. For example Wizard of OZ, we're doing all conventials in kansas, and switching to LED for OZ (although still conventional's out front of course). Really makes things pop in munckinland! ha.

    Thanks again guys, i'll let you know how it all comes out.
  • leebotleebot Registered User
    edited February 2009
    I have used the seladors and the color kinetics and when lighting a cyc I would go with the color kinetics. The seladors are great fixtures but they dont fit the hue saturation model. That being said if I have to light a person I will choose seladors every time. The extra 4 colors of led make finding that perfect shade much easier. They also look much more natural on people.
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