X-spot Tilt Fail

Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
edited January 2009 in HES Automated Lighting
Ok,
I have seen this error on several different xspots, and have never been able to nail it down.

What happens is, when powered up, the fixture seems to start to home, but the tilt 3phase board never intitilizes.
The end result is a tilt fail error on the display.
and the tilt motor is never powered up.
you can push the head and there is no resisitance.

As a side problem with this error,
The fixture will still strike the lamp with this problem, and doesn't seem to notice that there are no fans running in the head, as well as that it cannot see the head temp sensors.
This has caused several of my xspots to have melted bezels.

Cycling power always fixes it, but you never know when it will happen again.
Also, homing the fixture does not seem to fix it. the tilt fail error stays.
so if the fixture is hung somewhere in the rig that it cannot be easily powered down, it is stuck for the remainder of the show.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Joshua Wood

Comments

  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited January 2009
    4.1.5,
    Although I believe I have seen it with 4.1.4 as well.
    Josh
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited January 2009
    Yep, Power is definetly getting there.
    Its like the board doesn't initilize.
    I believe there is an LED that is flashing when this happens.
    Josh
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited January 2009
    I have tried even replacing the entire board with a spare.
    And the problem still happens.
    It is a very hard problem to figure out, as it only happens once every 100 times the fixture is powered up.
    If it powers up correctly the first time, it will be fine until the power is cycled.
    and it takes a power cycle to fix the problem as well, homing does not fix it.
    I believe it is happening on multiple fixtures though, as I have had several Xspots come back from tour with melted bezels, and no good reason as to how this happened.

    Josh
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited January 2009
    One more thing chris,
    I have tried swapping the boards in the past, and have never had a fixture have a pan fail.
    Josh
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited January 2009
    Nope, all the other boards in the head home correctly.
    Joshua Wood
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited January 2009
    Any other ideas chris?
    Or in any case, any chance to get the xspot software not to be able to strike a lamp when it doesn't see the tilt 3 phase board?
    It seems a bit dangerous to have the lamp struck with no fans running.
    Thanks!
    Joshua Wood
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited January 2009
    Ok, I will keep an eye out,
    Just fyi, when this error happens, the tilt never starts working, and the lamp strikes as soon as it sees dmx. during which the 3phase card is sitting there blinking.

    Shouldn't the fixture douse the lamp as soon as it doesn't see the fans?
    Maybe not right away, but after a minute or so?

    And as for the 3phase cards, you mean 1.3.4? correct?
    Joshua Wood
  • tadawsontadawson Registered User
    edited January 2009
    I wonder . . . might it be possible that the address screws (or some other fault) are causing the fixture to see a *different* card as this three phase, and come up around it? I had a failed module once that basically caused half the others in the X-Spot to mis-ID and show errors that weren't real once . . . .

    Just thinkin' out loud . . . and I think looking at the fan data, etc. as Chris suggested will be quite telling . . .

    - Tim
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited January 2009
    Ok,
    Just as a test, I unplugged the head 3 phase card, and plugged the fixture in.
    The fixture homed, completed homing, and then struck the lamp with no fans running, and then the tilt fail error finally showed up.
    I went into the menu, and checked fan speed, and the it says,
    Optic 0rpm
    Head 1 0rpm
    Head 2 0rpm


    I didn't want to leave it plugged in too long to see if it would eventually kill the lamp, perhaps you want to try it there.
    but in my experience, it don't believe it ever shuts the lamp off, it just lets the fixture cook with no fans.

    Let me know what you come up with.
    Thanks!
    Joshua Wood
  • tadawsontadawson Registered User
    edited January 2009
    Hmmm . . . I gotta wonder. Are you sure you saw this on 4.1.4? IIRC, about the only change to 4.1.5 was to "hot wire" the head fans to full speed, and thus ignore the speed sensors and speed control routines in the firmware. I wonder if this change inadvertently broke the fan speed detection/shut down part of the firmware as well . . . .

    Maybe I'll dig one of mine out and test . . . . I have never seen this issue, but it would be good to know.

    - Tim
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited January 2009
    Ok, I unplugged 2 fixtures tilt board for a test,
    Of course they don't strike the lamp on their own, as they don't have DMX.
    I manually struck the lamp with the menu, and Let them go for 1 minute.
    What happens this time is that it dowses the lamp and now is stuck in a neverending cycle of homing. (But the lamp is off)

    When I add dmx,
    They home, strike the lamp, dowse the lamp, homes again, and tries to strike the lamp again.

    So apparently something different happens when my tilt fail error occurs.
    as when that happens, it will allow the fixture to cook with no fans.

    Joshua Wood
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited January 2009
    Hey Chris,
    Can you email me 4.1.4, I don't think it is on the support page for xspot anymore.
    Thanks
    Joshw@vee.com
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited January 2009
    Hey Chris,
    Any chance I can get that software, to test if it makes a difference?
    Josh
  • tadawsontadawson Registered User
    edited January 2009
    http://www.highend.com/pub/products/automated_luminaires/XSpot/software/xspot.4.1.4.r.zip

    Should get it for you . . . (just change the version number in the URL to the one you want, and they are all there).

    - Tim
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited January 2009
    excellent,
    Thanks!
    Josh
  • tadawsontadawson Registered User
    edited January 2009
    Josh -
    Any more info? I am curious as all get-out on this one . . .

    - Tim
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited January 2009
    Hey Tim,
    To be honest, I gave up on it,
    it only happens once in a while, and as much as it annoys, there is only so much refurb budget to go around.
    It is a very difficult thing to pin down, as it is very intermittent.
    For now I am just going to have my touring folk keep a close eye out for the the tilt fail error.
    And if it shows up, have them cycle the power to the fixture to fix it.
    It probably is just another of those xspot errors that seem to happen.
    Oh well.
    Thanks for the help,
    I appreciate it.
    Josh
  • tadawsontadawson Registered User
    edited January 2009
    I guess I was more interested to see if 4.1.4 behaved any better with regard to handling the case where the fans weren't running. I am concerned at this point that my X-Spots with 4.1.5 may be susceptible to meltdown, as you have observed . . Considering that I don't have a download dongle, I can't easily back them off to test myself, so wanted a reasonable assurance that there is/isn't an issue before considering making a change . . .

    - Tim
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited January 2009
    If you have a hog pc widget, you can now use that with the echo software to upload to fixtures.
    Just as an option.
    Josh
  • tadawsontadawson Registered User
    edited January 2009
    Woodj32177 wrote:
    If you have a hog pc widget, you can now use that with the echo software to upload to fixtures.
    Just as an option.
    Josh

    Good idea, but don't have that either - I am exclusively on dedicated hardware Hog . . .

    - Tim
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