Shutter + FX

MarcoMarco Registered User
edited September 2008 in Wholehog 3 General Discussion
Hi,

it´s not possible to do an FX on the Strobe. I need a FX on normal Function Shutter open- Shutter closed. The value for open and closed are not to reach in the FX engine.
For example: If you wont to build a fast FX on the intensity and you have a old Mac 600, where the mechanic of the dimmer in the lamp are very slow, you need to do this with the shutter. But......its not possible.
Befor maybe 100 years on H2 it works perfectly.;)

I post a Thread for this a long time befor, but nothing happens.

please, please do something. I must work very often with this "shit lamp"

Also, it would be nice when the FX size on strobeeffects are labeld in normaly percent and not in Hz. This makes me totaly crazy and perhaps is the error in this.....

Marco

Comments

  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited August 2008
    Marco wrote:
    Also, it would be nice when the FX size on strobeeffects are labeld in normaly percent and not in Hz. This makes me totaly crazy and perhaps is the error in this.....

    Hz is how it is supposed to be as the H3 works with an abstract fixture model.....what would be nice is getting the fixtures all calibrated to properly display their true strobe rate.;)

    As for your chase....have you tried simply building a chase that has the shutter "open" in cue 1 and "closed" in cue 2? I too have run into a lot of the old 600s at festivals this summer, and this works reasonably well....and I agree that they are a "shit lamp" for many reasons!:angryfire:

    ***EDIT*** I am actually stuck with some these POS fixtures today!:chairshot: ....why oh why can't RED really be RED :mad: !
  • MarcoMarco Registered User
    edited August 2008
    dear marty,

    first of all many thanks for the help to build a two step chaser.
    maybe you know also how i can build a little bit tricky and nice fanning for 50 lamps in your chaser in few seconds?
    and second, Hz is the unit for frequency = rate and size is the amplitude.
    i know for the abstract fixture model, but in this case.....sorry! thats sh...

    marco
  • prmuchaprmucha Registered User
    edited August 2008
    Well, to get an amplitude shift, you need to use the shutters as the strobe is a hard close. A soft close (to get a percentage of the total output of the fixture) would be using the shutters.

    As you've noticed, some fixtures are slower than others in their shutter closing/opening speed, and thus intensity effects only work so well.
  • MarcoMarco Registered User
    edited August 2008
    dear Patrick,

    ?????????
  • prmuchaprmucha Registered User
    edited August 2008
    I believe I just misread what was the problem. Sorry.
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited August 2008
    Marco wrote:
    maybe you know also how i can build a little bit tricky and nice fanning for 50 lamps in your chaser in few seconds?
    and second, Hz is the unit for frequency = rate and size is the amplitude.
    i know for the abstract fixture model, but in this case.....sorry! thats sh...

    Its actually easier than you think. Build an ordered group to refelect the way you want fixtures ordered in your chases....then simply use NEXT to go to further fixtures and build more steps into your chase.....selecting RANDOM as the chase order is also very useful.

    Example for 8 fixtures:
    1- Build a group that orders 1,8,2,7,3,6,4,5.
    2- Select this group and set shutter CLOSED.
    3 -Then NEXT and set shutter OPEN. Record as Cue 1
    4 - Set shutter CLOSED
    5 - NEXT and set shutter OPEN
    6 - Record as Cue 2
    7 - repeat as needed till you have 8 cues.
    Then set as a chase...set chase order, rate, etc.....

    I have found that doing "shutter" chases with Intensity instead of Strobe yeilds much better results with the 600s.

    Bottom line is that the fixture will only respond as fast as the motor can move it....and since Martin consistenly underpowers the motors in their fixtures (as a deluded attempt to extend motor lifespan) it makes it extra difficult in this case.

    Hope this is a bit more clear and helpful.:)
  • MarcoMarco Registered User
    edited September 2008
    from HES have nobody say something to this?
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Marco wrote:
    it´s not possible to do an FX on the Strobe. I need a FX on normal Function Shutter open- Shutter closed. The value for open and closed are not to reach in the FX engine.

    This is actually not true....here are steps to prove that it works:

    1- Patch any number of Mac-600s
    2- Select them and set Intensity @ 100% and Strobe rate @ 5-Hz
    3 - Go into Effects and set Step table for Strobe
    4 - Set FX Rate @ 15 cycles
    5 - Open the Output window Back off the FX Size to 4.9 Hz and thne gently back up to 5 Hz.
    6 -You should now see the values in the Output window fluctuate between 0.0 Hz and 10.0 Hz with an Intensity of 100%
    7- Next go to Setup, DMX from the lower right hand toolbar and navigate to the DMX Universe where the 600s are patched.

    Note that the values are jumping between 20 and 50....which are the values for Shutter Open and Shutter Closed.

    Make sense?:)
  • MarcoMarco Registered User
    edited September 2008
    HES?????
  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited September 2008
    Marco,

    I am not sure what other answers you are looking for as Marty has already answered the questions in this thread from what I can tell. Please feel free to let me know what other information you are looking for and I will be happy to respond.

    thanks,
  • MarcoMarco Registered User
    edited September 2008
    hi Brad,

    to explain my problem i will give you a example.
    My aim is to build a Fx -Strobe open- Strobe closed.
    On H2 I set the strobe to closed, in the Fx engine a step wave and a size of maybe 5% and my lamp do on..off...on...off......
    For this I know that the Fx base is on closed and mostly the next DMX Value is open.
    To do this I need just few seconds on H2.

    My experience on H3 is, I can´t say what is the currend size of the Fx and I have to do and try and error procedure like Marty explained.
    The abstract fixture model is in this case more confused as helpfull.
    To do this on H3 I need a lot more than few seconds and I think it´s not the easy way to go.

    I hope you understand what I mean.
    Maybe I also a little bit stupid?????:dunno:

    thank´s
  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited September 2008
    Thanks for the explanation Marco,

    No you are not a little bit stupid... I agree that the library model can be a bit more confusing in this respect, but also it prevents you from hitting items such as control channel funcitons that are shared with the shutter with many fixtures.

    I believe we have discussed this in the past and I will consult the archives in our bug logs and get back with you. Like Marty said, I usually just build these effects using the dimmer parameter as most fixtures will close their shutter when at zero anyway (or they are using the same physical mechanism for both shutter and dimmer).

    I do agree that it could be easier and I will look further into this.

    thanks,
  • MarcoMarco Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Hi Brad,

    first of all many thank´s for that I´m not stupid.:notworthy:

    "... I agree that the library model can be a bit more confusing in this respect, but also it prevents you from hitting items such as control channel funcitons that are shared with the shutter with many fixtures."

    Yes, that´s correct and this is fine. But.... I think the cut in the Range from the Fx size is not only at the control functions, also in the lower levels for the open- closed function. Could that be, that the range of the size is only in the real strobe values?

    ..."Like Marty said, I usually just build these effects using the dimmer parameter as most fixtures will close their shutter when at zero anyway (or they are using the same physical mechanism for both shutter and dimmer)."

    Also yes..I know for this and also BUT......
    Shutter and Intensity are two differed functions and there give some reasons for that being. In a lighting designe I need sometimes both functions at the same time. For example- I want to have a simple Fx with a hard open- closed on the shutter and at the same time I want a smooth Fx on- off at the intensity....

    I know it´s not a big thing, but sometimes I´m nerved also by the little things, if you know what I mean.;)

    thank you again...

    Marco
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