"State of the Wholehog" 2008

bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
In the interest of all our users and as a response to several recent threads, I would like to further explain our current plans regarding Wholehog lighting control systems. We take all suggestions and comments very seriously and always appreciate all our users and their feedback.

Our core controller development is lighting control software that can be used in several different hardware system types. Our goal from a hardware standpoint is to bring our products to more users by creating different controllers for different markets and price ranges. For example, the Hog 3PC software and Road Hog console are perfect for low budget and small production needs. The Hog iPC and Road Hog Full Boar are best placed in medium sized budgets and productions, while the Wholehog 3 console remains the flagship product for large productions of all types. The development of new hardware products doesn’t require much distraction for the core software development team and therefore does not slow down software enhancements.

The software development team is split into two main goals. First is the core development team, which is focused on producing software that all products benefit from. They are currently working on the DP8000, a new processor capable of sixteen universes of DMX and Art-Net. This work also includes important system wide changes that significantly improve all software functionalities on all platforms. Once the DP8000 is released, this team will continue to develop other large features and requests such as keystroke macros, effects engine rework, and other enhancements.

The other portion of the development team continues to support the current releases with bug fixes, new libraries, and smaller feature requests and implementations. Soon you will see a release that contains new features such as Network File Sharing, new quick defaulting commands, and other recently requested items.

The goal of all software development is to continue to provide our users with a powerful, stable, and reliable lighting console. The Wholehog 3 console remains the flagship product of the line and will continue to hold its place as such. We have seen an ever-growing increase in our user base, and this trend looks to continue for quite some time. No matter which console hardware they select, they will be using the same software and thus increasing the value of the entire Wholehog product line.

Again we are very thankful for all users and owners of our consoles and wish to express our thanks for your continued support and use of our products. We are dedicated to ensuring our software and hardware provides each of you with exactly what you desire from a lighting console (and hopefully we can exceed your expectations too).

As always, please feel free to contact me directly with any further questions, comments, or suggestions you might have. I am happy to discuss your needs and concerns on a personal basis. brad_schiller(at)highend.com

Comments

  • Innovative IlluminationsInnovative Illuminations Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Thank You Brad for the Update.

    Looks like the future of the HOG family is very bright.....
    :147:


    :hogsign:
  • king2756king2756 Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Hi, Brad,

    Please forgive me if this has already been covered, but what capabilities does the Hog 3 posess that the Full Boar does not that would make it more appropriate for larger shows?

    Will
  • philyusphilyus Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Brad.

    Thanks for the update. I have been away from the family for a while using the grand ma (sorry) AM keen to come back to the fray so to speak. Brad, DP8000 can you give me a little more info please, i.e is it a re worked Dp2000 or is it a start from scratch processor, I am mainly convcrned with the speed issue of data sent to and from the current dp's while programming. For instance patch updates, HSI colour informaion on large LED shows etc.

    I am mainly working in the European Corporate industry and often need a console to be able to perform on the fly and respond to some very quick and temporary programming styles. Recently I used a lovely Hog 3 again but was a little sad at yet again the time I had to wait for updates to get to the DP's which were sitting next to me!

    Any info would be gratefully appreciated.

    Thanks

    Phil
  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited February 2008
    Will,

    Here are some features that are unique to the Wholehog 3 when compared to the other Wholehog consoles such as Road Hog Full Boar and Hog iPC:

    The Wholehog 3 has the following hardware differences:
    Soft Keys around the monitors
    Adjustable monitors
    Linux Operating System
    Rate wheel and buttons
    Intensity wheel and buttons
    CD and Audio capabilities with built in speakers
    Virtually silent operation due to no fans (all convection cooled)
    Anodized aluminum sleek looks
    Machined and anodized aluminum encoders and desk lights
    Slimmer package in road case
    Dual color LED desklights
    Internal ZIP drive
    Folding wrist rest with storage area
    The original product and flagship of the range

    The software capabilities are of course the same for all products, except the Road Hog which is limited in terms of DMX outputs.
  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited February 2008
    Phil,

    The DP8000 is an entirely new processor and motherboard designed to actually handle much more than the sixteen universes it will drive. The unit will not only increase the output, but also significantly improve the entire system. As I stated before this is due to the new hardware and also due to recoding of much of the communications layer of the software. With the DP8000 you will have no concerns about speed, delays or refresh.

    We will provide more information shortly about the DP8000 as we get closer to releasing the product in a few months.
  • philyusphilyus Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Brad.

    Thanks for info. Look forward to reading more about them when they are released and even more excited about getting them into a system and using them in anger.

    Thanks

    Phil
  • JeffMJeffM Registered User
    edited February 2008
    bradpepe wrote:
    Will,

    Here are some features that are unique to the Wholehog 3 when compared to the other Wholehog consoles such as Road Hog Full Boar and Hog iPC:

    The Wholehog 3 has the following hardware differences:
    Soft Keys around the monitors
    Adjustable monitors
    Linux Operating System
    Rate wheel and buttons
    Intensity wheel and buttons
    CD and Audio capabilities with built in speakers
    Virtually silent operation due to no fans (all convection cooled)
    Anodized aluminum sleek looks
    Machined and anodized aluminum encoders and desk lights
    Slimmer package in road case
    Dual color LED desklights
    Internal Zip drive
    Folding wrist rest with storage area
    The original product and flagship of the range.

    Lets address them one by one.
    Soft keys around monitors.......Nothing special!
    Adjustable monitors...........Stand alone touch screens are adjustable too so again nothing special!
    Linux Operating System....... Does this make the console do more than the others?
    Rate wheel and buttons........Hog PC's got em
    CD and Audio capabilities with built in speakers........again Hog PC touch screens with built in speakers and PC with CD/DVD drive!
    Virtually silent operation due to no fans (all convection cooled).....HOG PC again!
    Anodized aluminum sleek looks......hmmmm HOG PC/ Road Hog / IPC. Again nothing different.
    Slimmer package in road case.....Does it make the console function better?
    Dual color LED desklights......Again Hog PC has em.
    Internal Zip drive......And this makes the console do what differently?
    Folding wrist rest with storage area.....Now this makes the console run better than any of the others right?
    The original product and flagship of the range.............This makes it better by default right?
  • cormacjackcormacjack Registered User, DL Beta
    edited February 2008
    Hi Jeff,
    I don't understand what point are you trying to make?
    Brad has not mentioned anywhere in his reply that any of the features make the hog III "better".
    You have quoted the original question in your post...maybe re-read the question asked in the post and see brad's reply as i don't really think you understand or you are replying to a different post.

    C
  • nibornibor Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited February 2008
    Well Jm it depens on what kind of stuff you do I do everything from theater to dance to Broadway/ car shows to hotel openings and I feel you dont realy know what your yapping about so there go back to your laptop and write some more cues >>>>>>>>>>>

    Hog 3 owner
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited February 2008
    Well...my point of view, which is programming theater and musicals

    Soft keys around monitors.......Nothing special!

    Yes, they are. For me they are one of the most important things when programming. One reason to program a show with H3 and run it for example with Road Hog.
    Adjustable monitors...........Stand alone touch screens are adjustable too so again nothing special!

    I don't want any extra cables and connections. So here H3 is my choice.
    Linux Operating System....... Does this make the console do more than the others?

    Well, here I have to agree, because right now I think it's slowing down the development a bit (waiting for better USB support)
    Rate wheel and buttons........Hog PC's got em

    Really? The physical rate wheel and I-wheel is a must for me. Other Hog range consoles don't have them.
    CD and Audio capabilities with built in speakers........again Hog PC touch screens with built in speakers and PC with CD/DVD drive!

    Again, a complete mess for me...I like things to be one package.
    Virtually silent operation due to no fans (all convection cooled).....HOG PC again!

    Silent PC? Ok...show me...
    Anodized aluminum sleek looks......hmmmm HOG PC/ Road Hog / IPC. Again nothing different.
    Not in Road Hog, others yes, but not the whole thing.
    Slimmer package in road case.....Does it make the console function better?
    No, but it fits better...
    Dual color LED desklights......Again Hog PC has em.
    At this point I would say comparing Hog PC and the H3 console is bit strange...build your own console style is not for me...
    Internal Zip drive......And this makes the console do what differently?
    I agree, for me Zip drive is quite useless
    Folding wrist rest with storage area.....Now this makes the console run better than any of the others right?

    No, it doesn't, but it's useful...I have lot's of stuff there.
    The original product and flagship of the range.............This makes it better by default right?

    Yes :D
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited February 2008
    OK...so I have actually just returned from my semi-annual visit to Austin (mainly this time to see DL.3).

    I actually saw several DP-8000s built and being tested....I even saw one spitting out DMX to a fixture in the development lab. So it really can't be far off from going to market at this point.

    I too had some concerns regarding where the product line is headed with all the focus seemingly being put on the RoadHog consoles and accessories lately.

    One thing I noticed that should illustrate where the thinking is right now is that in the test lab there are no fewer than (7) full Hog-3 consoles, whereas there are only (2) iPCs, (1) RoadHog, and (2) RoadHog Full Boar......not to mention several large racks of DP-2000s, and many wings of all flavors.

    Additionally walking around the developer's cubicles I noticed that every developer had a full Hog-3 in their workstation with DP-2000s (and some DP-8000 prototypes).....I did not see a single iPC, RoadHog, or FB console actually in anyone's workstation.

    So it is very clear to me from that observation alone (in addition to lengthly dicussions on many topics with the team down there;) )...that Hog-3 is very much in the foreground as far as development path. Many of those much requested features that are missing from the old H2 and ones that were promised when H3 was first released will be added after the DP-8000 comes out (which as I already said looks to be very soon from what I observed).

    The RoadHogs add to the product line making it more robust overall, but Hog-3 is still the king by far.

    And just to add to the list of reasons why I still own a Hog-3 and haven't bailed out for one of the newer products....

    - The size and weight of a console. I can take a console, switch and 2 DPs with me on the subway here in NYC b/c the case fits right through the turnstyles (you laugh, but I actually do this quite often).....not so with RoadHogs.....also I have flown with my H3 as extra luggage for a reasonable fee to many parts of the world....I would hate to see the bill for a RoadHog Full Boar as it is much larger/heavier.

    - the tactility of the grooved faders on Hog-3...I can feel where I am using the grooves without having to take my eyes off the stage...not so with RoadHog

    - The buttons around the screens are actually very important b/c I can press a button and select something off the screen simultaneously...whereas with the RH console the toolbars are on the screens....and the screens can only register one touch at a time

    I think the other reasons have been covered well in the earlier posts.
  • chrislighthallchrislighthall Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Thanks Brad for the preview of upcoming products and features. It all sounds great.

    I will never understand why people keep making complaints about the "life" of the Wholehog 3 console. I was looking through the Hog 3 archive section of the website a few minutes ago and found the oldest software version I could with a date attached. I found v.1.0 build 101 beta and it was dated August 15 2002. So the Wholehog 3 console has been out since at least that date. I know it has been longer. I have been a Hog 3 user since the beginning. The very beginning.
    Here's my point. The console is about 5 and a half years old. Of course hardware additions are going to be released. Some people consider a two year old laptop to be "old". It's not like High End has stopped developing software for any of the Hog 3 line, right?
    Are people wanting some kind of hardware upgrade to their Wholehog 3 consoles? As I understand it, this would be an extremely costly venture. Isn't the Wholehog 3 a completely customized console. Custom motherboard and all that jazz. I remember there being several posts on this forum about this.
    Or maybe it's that people are jealous of the newer consoles. They do run a little faster (keeping in mind the Wholehog 3 console is 5 years old). High End is pushing the newer desks harder then the older one(s), but then again they aren't pushing the Studio Spot CMY real hard either. Should I start a post about how that's not fair? Stupid SHOWGUN taking all the advertising space. Was that too sarcastic.

    The Wholehog 3 is not dead. Brad just did a post about how it is their "flagship" console. Who cares what they call the "flagship" anyway. Buy the console that works for you. I work for a band that bought a Road Hog last summer. It fit right into our budget and I really enjoy programing on a hog. Then not a year later the Road Hog Full Boar comes out. Obviously I wish my console had all the features the Full Boar has, but then it wouldn't fit into our budget. Anyway, the Road Hog has everything I need. In a few years maybe we will need to upgrade to a bigger desk. I can respect that some people have commented about not knowing the Full Boar was coming out. That does suck. If you're not a large company who can afford to purchase multiple consoles then that can be tough. Maybe launching both desks together would have been a wiser move. I don't know.

    Not trying to be a jerk here. I just keep reading these posts about Wholehog 3 owners who are upset with newer desks being released, but their console is still being fed with software updates. With each software release the Wholehog console has gained some performance boosts. The artnet port on the Full Boar doesn't even function yet so no worries for legacy Wholehog owners. It sounds like the DP 8000 will help performance on the console and add artnet, so that's a good thing.

    my humble opinion.
    Chris
  • erockerock Registered User
    edited February 2008
    I'm sure that this just isn't possible for a number of reasons, but I don't think I've ever seen the question asked. I would definitely think that developing software to run on both Linux and XP embedded takes extra time as opposed to just one of the other. Is there a reason that the Hog 3 couldn't be switched to running on XP embedded as this seems to be the primary focus for new hardware. Again, I am completely aware that I'm not the first one to have this thought, but was curious to know some of the details.

    Thanks
    Eric
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited February 2008
    erock wrote:
    I would definitely think that developing software to run on both Linux and XP embedded takes extra time as opposed to just one of the other. Is there a reason that the Hog 3 couldn't be switched to running on XP embedded

    If anything I would say go the other direction....Linux is SOOOOO much better than XPe....no H3 should stay Linux without a doubt.
  • nibornibor Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited February 2008
    He might know what he on about, you know
  • nibornibor Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited February 2008
    And in my mind these forums should get things fired up and I would be very interested to know what consoles the two chaps JM and C,hall own and have put there payment to each year ?
  • amir877amir877 Registered User
    edited February 2008
    I don't think Jeff M is wrong, i own a WholeHog III console for 4 years and if that what make it the flagship then i go for the RoadHog FB in half price and i can save on USB stick.

    Amir
  • cormacjackcormacjack Registered User, DL Beta
    edited February 2008
    Hi Chris,
    "Some people consider a two year old laptop to be "old"."
    I very much doubt that anybody pays $25,000 for a laptop every 2 years so i don't think that comment is really valid.
    I think a lot of the original posts were indeed about how long the wholehog III console had been in existence and you are indeed correct maybe 5 years and how still many of the promised features were still promises.I think keystroke Macros,USB saving and improved view performance were the main points being made.
    It must be said the new Hog III os is nowhere in comparison to the older ver you started with but for some many critical functions are still missing.
    I think the reason people care about about "flagship" consoles is because they pay a huge amount of cash for them well above what other consoles cost.
    From your post i see you don't own a Hog III or any DP's so maybe your post might lean a different way if that was the case? Maybe not.just wondering.

    Marty-Your a lucky guy where you can jump on a plane and be in HE within a few hours and get information from those in the know,i can't so i read the forums,read available information and get e-mail updates and hope i'm not missing something which i seem to be as i never find out anything until i read it here or any on the lightnetwork.

    Interesting post and too much equipment that i want to own.

    Best C
  • sulkkissulkkis Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Hi Marty,

    Since two years ago it´s been very painfull to fly with extra baggage. Nowadays max weight for each checked in luggage is 32 kgs, no exceptions. This is due to international manual handling regulations. I actually had a Roadhog as checked in luggage few months ago and I had to dig the original cardboard box and fly with it as the flight case was too heavy.

    Sulkkis
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2008
    cormacjack wrote:
    Marty-Your a lucky guy where you can jump on a plane and be in HE within a few hours and get information from those in the know,i can't so i read the forums,read available information and get e-mail updates and hope i'm not missing something which i seem to be as i never find out anything until i read it here or any on the lightnetwork.

    I do consider myself lucky in that regard, that's why I try and share what knowledge I can with everyone.
    sulkkis wrote:
    Since two years ago it´s been very painfull to fly with extra baggage. Nowadays max weight for each checked in luggage is 32 kgs, no exceptions. This is due to international manual handling regulations. I actually had a Roadhog as checked in luggage few months ago and I had to dig the original cardboard box and fly with it as the flight case was too heavy.

    You will have to pay extra no matter what, I reccomend calling your airline to find out how they handle oversize luggage in advance b/c different airlines have different policies.

    I just flew to LA from NYC in Dec for example with my H3, keyboard, (2) DPs, cables and small switch in the reuglar H3 case...about 98# (44.5 kg) and cost me $100 extra on American Airlines.....same for the return trip....no problems just plan ahead and you'll be good.

    Also flew to EU last year and back on AA & British Airways....slightly more expensive, but again no problems as long as you call ahead and make arrangements.
  • sulkkissulkkis Registered User
    edited March 2008
    Littlebit offtopic, but anyway:

    I had a flight from MAN to HEL last Dec and I had two luggage to be checked in. One was 29 kg and the other was 34 kg. There was no way to check them in as is but I had to move some stuff from the other bag to get the weight under 32 kg/pcs. If the weight is more than 32 kg/pcs, then it will be handled as cargo and most airlines will not guarantee that the luggage will be on same flight as you.

    Also, even if they can get the stuff on the same flight the arrival time should be during the office hours as otherwise you will not get the stuff out from cargo.

    This has been the policy so far, normally I fly with SAS or Lufthansa.

    Normally I don't have any problems with the overweight but my absolute worst case was when I was on my way to PVG with 89 kg. Finally I had to pay for 44 kgs and the bill was 1752 eur just for overweight and my flight was originally about 1500 eur!
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2008
    I also only check one other bag when flying with my desk, so the console counts as "bag #2"......this will reduce the cost somewhat as opposed to flying with the console as a third "bag".

    It is never an ideal situation to be in, but if I have to do it I don't really worry about my H3.....as I said earlier other desks are much more cumbersome.
  • nibornibor Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited March 2008
    You go Marty, I also fly with the H3 and a rack with Datalyinks 2xDP2k
    Netswitch and realy like the new update had no trobble with a full install update Cue,works so grate now I don't think I will ever be a move in black chap but there you go. out all the consoles out there I still think the H3 is the best,
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited March 2008
    There's only two things which concern in Hog range consoles.
    Hog3 10/100 ethernet and will we able to use solid state drives someday?
  • barnes2000barnes2000 Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited April 2008
    Brad,

    You know I love my Hog3 console, and I love reading all the posts that have been made to help support the Wholehog III as the flagship console, but I gotta say, in the new brochure you released, the chart on page 11 seems to favor the Full Boar as the console with more to give. You have the Wholehog III at the top of the list, but the Full Boar has more options. If someone who knew nothing about the Hog was to look at that chart, what would the convicing factor be for the Wholehog III over the Full Boar? I don't think it would be the fact that the Full Boar doesn't have a Zip drive. Just my 2c.
  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited April 2008
    Thanks Scott for your input. I will contact you this week to discuss this further. There are plenty of posts here of why a Wholehog 3 console is often chosen over a Full Boar. The simple point is that we are offering a range of consoles and the Wholehog 3 remains the flagship.
  • Jan OpsethJan Opseth Registered User
    edited April 2008
    This is really an interesting post.

    It's a pitty that no more people starts questioning.

    EVERYONE understand that an new Intel i686 CPU with an busspeed at 1ghz, does beyond faster caluculations than an Freescale G4 400MHz with an bus speed at 100.

    Now what comes in to calulation is the coding, on that point I mean the Linux partition on the Wholehog operation system is quite good, but there it end also.

    It's stupid to mention that the console is 5years old, networking several consoles with user levels should have worked, USB memory should have worked, Kernel Upgrade (which is not done beacuse it probobly breaks other stuff in the Code), A faster merge/update function, ARTNET, A focus tablet/hardware device. (not a tablet PC), ETC.

    DP8000? What is the story, the hardware was there for at least 1.5 years ago?

    PLEASE PLEASE HES: Stick to linux and ownmade hardware (aka motherboards) and give all that with the blue alu console a choice.

    I've been a VERY loyal hog user since 98, I just want's things that work.

    I'm still using H3's but I sold my console 2 years ago (H3).

    I'm not flaming, i'm asking.

    my 2c

    Jan Opseth
  • GianGian Registered User
    edited April 2008
    I wanna know if the DP8000 will work with Hog 3 PC as well,... adding Ethernet capabilitis to that.

    Regards
  • edited April 2008
    Yes, you can connect DPs (Both DP2000s and DP8000s) to Hog3pc.
  • RobfulRobful Registered User
    edited April 2008
    With all the talk of this console versus that console, “what’s the point in that model” etc etc, I just want to say a big thank you to High End for developing the HogPC software and hardware line and giving the PC software the same functionality as that of the consoles. I mostly do amateur shows where there is never a budget to hire anything much and certainly nothing in the Hog league. Thanks to HogPC, I can now own my very own Hog setup at a price I can afford and tailor it to my individual requirements. Programming is so much more fun and I get all the benefits of using a highly capable operating system like Wholehog

    One day I’d like to be able to afford (and justify owning) my own Hog III or whatever its future incarnation. But until the Pigs do indeed start flying, I’ll have great fun with my PC setup. I love it!

    Thanks High End for giving us choice!

    Rob
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