Cyberlight Strike Problem

klab232002klab232002 Registered User
edited February 2008 in HES Automated Lighting
Hey Everybody,
I'm a "Cyber Novice", thought I'd get that out there, because maybe I'm just 'missing' something...

I have 11 Cyber CL's, I have this problem with about 5 of them, when I power the fixture, it homes just fine, (and stick it in test mode) it strikes the lamp for about 5-10 seconds, then the lamp goes out, and the Lamp LED just flashes.

I can try turning the fixture on and off again, to "reset" it, and it does the same thing.

Any ideas of what could be wrong?

Thanks,
Caleb

Comments

  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited December 2007
    A few things to check...

    #1 - are your fans all spinning?
    #2 - Since the lamp is firing and then going out it probably is not the ignitor...it sounds like the ballast....if the ballast looks like a piece of toast...it probably is.
    #3 - look at your PSB (power supply board) for any obvious damage.

    go here for all info on Cybers:
    http://www.highend.com/support/automated_luminaires/cyberlightturbo.asp

    If you click the exploded views link you can see how the fixture is assembled and what parts are where.
  • klab232002klab232002 Registered User
    edited December 2007
    All of the fans do spin, I haven't looked at the ballasts really closely. Where can I get a new ballast? That way I can swap them out to see if thats the problem.

    THANKS!
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited December 2007
    You can get them through your local High End dealer, or from Light Parts

    www.lightparts.com

    There is a fair ammount of work involved to replace a Cyber ballast...I don't want you to think that you can just swap one out quickly.
  • klab232002klab232002 Registered User
    edited December 2007
    yeah i never 'assume' anything is easy... i figured it would be a ton of work, but really my only option is to try a new one to see if it solves the problem.

    are there manuals available for me to follow to replace the ballast? or do i kind of just have to pull the fixture apart as needed?
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited December 2007
    The link I posted above is a great place to start. If you need help you can always call HES support @ (800) 890-8989.
  • ChrisTallChrisTall Registered User, DL Beta
    edited December 2007
    Caleb,

    Also try the lamp. Had a fixture recently that had a similar symptom and a new lamp was all it needed.

    You can swap one from a working fixture to test the theory.

    Cat
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2007
    I think thermal protection can cause problems when they get old.
  • klab232002klab232002 Registered User
    edited December 2007
    where is the thermal protection located? that might be easier to swap out than the ballast to start.

    I've tried different lamps and they don't seem to make a difference.

    I will tell you that the fixtures were working fine, a couple of them stopped working when i shut them down after a show (disconnected dmx, let the lamp shut down, and the fan to stop before disconnecting power) when i powered them back up, they just wouldn't come back to life... strange...
  • klab232002klab232002 Registered User
    edited December 2007
    btw, does highend support cost something to call? i'm an "IT" guy for a couple of banks, and i've worked with various companies support in the past, some of them won't say "boo" without an outragious support contract... (ps. i've never worked with hes support.. just checking)
  • SBlairSBlair Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited December 2007
    Caleb,

    It doesn't cost anything to call HES for Support. Unlike most of the enterprise software companies, you don't have to wait on hold for ever either.
  • PuffyfishPuffyfish Registered User
    edited December 2007
    This wreaks of bad Power Factor Caps. It would be the first thing I'd replace. Once removed shake it. Sounds like it's full of sand? It's bad. If the lamp strikes then dies I'm betting on the PFC if all fans work and you have clean units. If thermal was bad it wouldn't allow it to strike. PFC's = 90299010 CAPACITOR,METAL POLY 145UF 250V $88.00

    Getting to it and replacing them takes a bit of work in the cramped area.
    Part available from HES or LIghtparts.com.


  • klab232002klab232002 Registered User
    edited December 2007
    I'll pull one apart and check it out this weekend. I should be able to swap one from a working fixture to see if thats the problem.

    I'll call you if I need one.

    Thanks!!!
  • TimMillerTimMiller Registered User
    edited January 2008
    also on the PFC you cannot just go to a electronics place or a industrial supply place and buy one. And no motor starting caps dont work either, they work for about 2 min they they turn into a fogger..... Dont ask how we found out.......
  • klab232002klab232002 Registered User
    edited January 2008
    hahaha though that sounds really amusing... i don't know if i would try buying some strange capacitor and sticking it in there... i haven't had a chance to pull one apart (as it requires time) but i'm hopefully gonna get around to it this weekend.
  • TimMillerTimMiller Registered User
    edited January 2008
    Big tip of advice. DO NOT REMOVE THE BACK PANEL!!!!!! flip the fixture on its back (belly up ie. fans and mirror facing towards the celing). Remove the optic (belly) cover and undo the safety cable. Next remove the 4 or 6 screws on upper part of the back plate (plate that houses the cable connections). Next you will find, you have to look, two allen screws that hold the color module to the belly plate that covers the lamp, the one with the two fans on it. Remove these two screws. Next carefully lift up and disconnect the two fan wires that attach to the powersupply board. The board on the other side with all the chips and wires on it is the logic board. If you remove the back plate completely it takes two people to struggle holding the light together along with keeping the vent plate lined up and trying to screw it all back together. To remove the ballast or transformer you have to remove the lamp, along with the 4 nuts holding the metal plates in place. You then start digging in from there. You need a long allen wrench (1/4" drive T-15 or T-20 torque bit on long 1/4" extension bar) to remove the two or three screws that hold the reflector along with the UV glass assembly and remove this. You also have to remove the screws that hold the logic board and power supply board to this metal assembly. And pull it out. You can do this without disconnecting either of the boards. On the right side next to the power supply board you will find a large metal cap. It has two orange wires running into it. That is the PFC. Be sure to discharge it by shorting it to be safe. The logic boards normally discharge them but i have been bitten by them before. You will see mounted to the back plate a little silver cap that has 4 wires running into it, it has 3 screw terminals, this is the ignitor. Dig down and you will see a little tranformer to the front of where the lamp goes, that is the logic tranformer, directly under where the lamp goes there will be a big ugly transformer that is the ballast. It is normal for everything to look like its been cooked.
  • PuffyfishPuffyfish Registered User
    edited January 2008
    Aww man you had to go and tell'em about the viper.busted_blue.gif I do so love the look on the new guys face when he discovers it's bite.scare.gif

    Teaches respect in an instant!:D
  • TimMillerTimMiller Registered User
    edited January 2008
    :D, sorry guys, maybe we'll get lucky and they will find it the hard way
  • mehrzadmoosavimehrzadmoosavi Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited January 2008
    caleb
    Before you start swapping parts call me on my toll free number 800-890-8989 x 1306. The problem you describe is very likely connector related and you’re seeing ‘signal’ drops due to contact overheat, corrosion or rust especially if your fixtures were built prior January 1997. That’s the date we started using gold pins on all signal contacts due to the problem you just described. There’s no need to replace your Power Factor cap. It’s not in the lamp circuit and fixture works fine if it fails. Fixture will just draw lots of current so you might trip a braker. Could be the ballast as Marty stated but I’ve replaced very few of them in the field. Instead of swapping the ballast which is a whole lot of work you can just jump the leads from another fixture. The only two wires used are white and black if you’re running fixtures at 208. As Marty suggested look for connector charring and damage on your power supply board where the ballast is connected.
    Please call me so we can discuss
    Mehrzad Moosavi (zod)
    Product Support Manager
    High End Systems, Inc.
  • klab232002klab232002 Registered User
    edited January 2008
    Thanks Mehrzad. I'll call.

    hahaha guys... even though i'm a “newbie”, when i was in high school, i used to pull apart crt's and discharge them… so I’m not completely stupid.. just moderately J

    …but it was very nice to remind me, because I probably would have powered the fixture (charging the power cap), realized it didn’t work, then pulled it open and shocked myself…

    So the warning is MUCH appreciated!!! Thanks!
  • klab232002klab232002 Registered User
    edited January 2008
    I think Zod hit the problem on the nose. I cleaned connector after connector, and they strike and stay on.. I do have another question.. related, so how would one go about discharging the power capacitor?? ie. I want to test the fixture by powering it, if it doesn't work, I want to open it up, but I probably should discharge the PowerCap before doing that...

    Thanks!
  • ChrisTallChrisTall Registered User, DL Beta
    edited January 2008
    To discharge the cap either a power resistor of large value (2 meg ohm), or a 230 volt incandescant lamp. I like the lamp because you can watch it dim.

    The big caps that car audio guys use comes with a small lamp for charging and discharging.

    Cat
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited January 2008
    On a side note, I feel like a complete fool,

    The ribbon connector is the most common reason that this happens, and not one of us thought of it. I have seen this several times, and for some reason it didn't even cross my mind.
    I guess I just don't work on cybers much anymore.
    :angryfire:
    Joshua Wood
  • PuffyfishPuffyfish Registered User
    edited January 2008
    I de-ox'ed mine and glued'em down. Havent had a problem in 8 years, so yeah It blew right by me too.:ninja:
  • klab232002klab232002 Registered User
    edited January 2008
    What did you use toe "de-ox" them? I just got some contact cleaner from Radio Shack (ie. easy to get). Is there something better to use?

    Also, does anybody know where you find a 230v incandescant lamp???
  • TimMillerTimMiller Registered User
    edited January 2008
    electronics store, to discharge caps i just short the two terminals together
  • ChrisTallChrisTall Registered User, DL Beta
    edited January 2008
    TimMiller wrote:
    electronics store, to discharge caps i just short the two terminals together

    Ok, don't quote me, but I personally would probably do what Tim said. :eek:

    However, besides welding the terminals a bit, shorting can damage it internally.

    To be on the safe side, a large value resistor only costs a few cents and can be had at your local "Radio Shack". Pick up a 1/2 watt 1MEG. Stick it accross the terminals along with your meter.

    Cat
  • PuffyfishPuffyfish Registered User
    edited January 2008
    klab232002 wrote:
    What did you use toe "de-ox" them? I just got some contact cleaner from Radio Shack (ie. easy to get). Is there something better to use?

    DEOXIT D5 http://store.caig.com/
    Just a lil' does it then sealed'em in silicone.:notworthy:
  • tadawsontadawson Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Puffyfish wrote:
    DEOXIT D5 http://store.caig.com/
    Just a lil' does it then sealed'em in silicone.:notworthy:

    Just be sure to use an electronics grade silicone - a lot of the stuff out there is corrosive as hell, and can tear up a connector worse than what you started with . . .

    - Tim
  • PuffyfishPuffyfish Registered User
    edited February 2008
    tadawson wrote:
    Just be sure to use an electronics grade silicone - a lot of the stuff out there is corrosive as hell, and can tear up a connector worse than what you started with . . .

    - Tim

    Good point!
    Could you post a link for the forums members?

    GIANTS WIN THE SUPERBOWL!!:headbang: :friday:

    Had to.
  • tadawsontadawson Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Puffyfish wrote:
    Good point!
    Could you post a link for the forums members?

    I don't have anything specific that I use, but typically, if you have an electronics supply house at hand, they will have the right stuff . . .

    Having said that, at my supply house they have these:

    http://www.altex.com/product_info.php?products_id=4099

    http://www.altex.com/product_info.php?products_id=6255

    The first being a general purpose "goo", and the second more of a coating for PC board areas. There are also spray conformal coatings that can be used on circuit boards, that will both insulate and protect the entire board from the environment. Handy to have around, especially if the boards you are working on are coated, and you have to penetrate the coating to do repairs . . .

    - Tim
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