another sync problem

barnes2000barnes2000 Registered User, Hog Beta
edited August 2007 in DL.3/DL.2
I've got 2 DL2s in a 1X2 collage. I uploaded a custom graphic that is just some bold text...white on black. Then I put the graphic in a Shake n Bake effect. After a while I'm seeing the fixtures get out of sync, causing the text to split from the collage mode. I've messed with the sync to and sync type, but this isn't a video clip, it's a jpeg. The only movement is from the Shake n Bake effect. I ended up resetting the fixtures, and now they are synced again. I guess I don't fully understand the sync options. "Sync to" is to assign a graphic layer a device ID to sync up with? Is this the ID I gave it using the CMA? "Sync type" is what? For this, do I put "sync type" to the graphic layer I'm using? I think I tried all this, but got no results.

Comments

  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited August 2007
    Hey Scott, I have dealt with this problem before. From what I can tell and from what other people have told me, the sync doesn't affect the effects and so they will eventually go out of sync. I think the last time sync of effects was brought up was to talk about strobing. Of course Tom Ericson's recommendation was to use the FX generator on the Hog.
  • barnes2000barnes2000 Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited August 2007
    I had a feeling.

    Thanks,
  • SBlairSBlair Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited August 2007
    Todd,

    You are half correct. The Sync To and Sync Type do not affect the effects.

    That doesn't mean they aren't being sync'd though. The effects always use the Global clock that runs whenever they are connected over Ethernet.

    There are a couple bugs where sometimes fixtures don't properly recognize which unit has the Global Clock and will use their own clock. If you put an object in a slow rotation and you see it snapping to different positions, then that is what is going on.

    If you go into the Statistics screen you can see which IP address is the Global Clock for each fixture.

    The lowest IP address fixture on the network is the one that should be the Global Clock. If you see a fixture acting as the Global Clock that shouldn't be, you can just reboot the fixture and it typically corrects itself.
  • schiefelsschiefels Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited August 2007
    Todd,

    Syncronization of strobing has been brought up in the past, but Mask strobe is not an effect per se. Mask strobing is a built in function of the global layer and not an effect that is dialed in on the effects channels.

    That being said, there are some effects that sync does have an effect on. Off the top of my head Object Wobulation and the ripple effects can be sync'ed up across the network. There is not a sync mode specifically named to do this. Instead, the only thing that has to be done is have the "sync to" value set correctly to a master fixture (and having all unique fixture ID's, of course). Also, all the fixtures involved with the collaged effect must have the same effects values being sent to them.

    Not all of the effects react to the sync packet information, and Shake and Bake is one of the ones that can't be sync'ed.

    Also, the sync'ing of movie playback and effects is still sub-optimal. It is something that can be played with, but not necessarily something you want to rely on. We have multiple bugs logged in our database here related to all the sync problems.

    Global clock, as Scott mentioned, is actually more for syncronization of 3D object rotation. When a fixture is not in a network, the global clock is used between the layers to make sure object rotation between the three layers stays in sync. For instance, if you start all three layers rotating at the same time at the same speed, the global clock makes sure that all three layers continue to rotate exactly the same. Before we implemented this, we had problems with rotational drift.

    In a networked situation, the global clock is used to do the same type of rotation syncronization between layers of different fixtures. But as Scott mentioned, there are issues with the fixtures being able to recognize the correct global clock master.

    So Scott B, in a very long winded way: Effects can be sync'ed, however Shake and Bake is not one of them. Also, sync is still in need of some work, so sync'ing of other effects may produce mixed results.
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited August 2007
    You both Brought up some good points. I tend to find many workarounds but a few things to mention....

    I'd really like to see an Axon based media engine with either a single or dual processor multicore Xeon and Solid State Hard drives. My point of view is that when I cross the $30,000 USD threshold for a fixture, it's really only nickle and dime to jump up in the performance the Xeon and SSD would offer.

    I still have plenty of shows where I'll run almost a minute of custom content at a larger width than 1024p on edge blended projectors. FRAME ACCURACY is absolutely essential.

    I understand where global sync on the object is priority but one of these days playback sync options need to be addressed. As far as the reboot to work around the bug, that's fine and good to know.

    Thanks Guys
  • SBlairSBlair Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited August 2007
    Todd,

    We are continuining to make many improvements in the software. I have to disagree on the hardware though. It is not nickels and dimes for what you suggest and it wouldn't necessarily bring a proportional gain in performance.

    Keep in mind the list price for Axon is only around $8k List. Going to a Quad core Xeon and SSD would move that price up to the $30k mark without really making that big of a performance difference.
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited August 2007
    Hey Scott,
    I just want to make sure my numbers jive with yours. Of course these are all exaggerated numbers to make sure for plenty of headroom.

    Intel Xeon Quad Core 64 Bit Processors (5300 Series)
    About $1,200 a piece

    Tyan, SuperMicro, Intel Motherboards (mid class with 4 SATA slots and PCIe)
    About $600 a piece

    nVidia or ATI Graphics PCIe Card (with upper mid class GPU)
    About $1,000 a piece

    1 Gb DDR 667MHz ECC Memory DIMs
    About $250 a piece

    100Gb 7200 RPM SATA Hard Disk (For XPe)
    About $100 a piece

    64Gb Solid State Hard Disk (45Mb to 65Mb per sec)
    $3,500 a piece

    PCIe Video Capture Card (SD or HD Component or SDI)
    $1,200 a piece

    Custom Case with Fans and Redundant Power Supply
    $1,000 for all

    So To build a System:
    Two Quad Core Xeon, 2Gb Memory, 256Mb GPU
    100Gb Main Drive, 64Gb Media Drive, Case, PSU, and Fans
    Looks like about $11,000

    Now I realize this is just for the hardware but $11k doesn't seem like $30k. Even if HES produced an enhanced version of the Axon engine, it seems to me like it would be able to leave shipping for well under $20k, right? I'd be willing to play that much if it meant frame accuracy and high resolution.

    What's your feedback?
  • schiefelsschiefels Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited August 2007

    Now I realize this is just for the hardware but $11k doesn't seem like $30k. Even if HES produced an enhanced version of the Axon engine, it seems to me like it would be able to leave shipping for well under $20k, right?
    Sorry to be frank, but no. Just because the hardware costs "only" $11k doesn't mean that we'll be able to ship it for well under $20k. At that point it simply wouldn't be profitable. In fact, it wouldn't even sustain itself. Above the cost of the hardware is the cost of system design, software development, sustaining activities, etc... The list goes on. Scott is correct at more like the $30k mark.

    The fact is that the kind of horsepower that would go along with the system you listed above is not necessary for frame accuracy. The hardware that is in the current DL.2 and Axon systems is capable of this, however there are still issues in the software to work out.
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