Using multiple cue lists

W8TAHW8TAH Registered User
Hi folks:

I made it through the first week of using my new hog2pc (soon to be hog3pc). I am learning a LOT and doing it very fast, but i do have one question.

How does one (in a production environment) make use of multiple quelists on multiple faders?

I know how to record to them, but transitioning between them and the myrid other details of running a show a bit escapes me -- I can see having chases on them and fade up or down the chase when i want it, that part makes sense. but im coming from a strand GSX and im a bit lost on this point


thanks

TIM

Comments

  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited April 2007
    Tim,

    There are countless answers to this question. It will depend a lot on what type of show you're working on. Here are a few situations where you may end up using multiple lists on multiple masters:

    1) You want to have some lights (like a podium special or stage wash) on their own handle. You can create a dedicated HTP list to control this group and put it on its own master.

    2) You have a look that you will need to use repeatedly, but don't want to have to cue over and over again. A good example of this might be an awards banquet. Each time an award winner's name is called, you run the big ballyhoo cue that is on its own master.

    3) You're running a live music show on the fly (this is called busking) and you don't have enough information to pre-cue the individual songs. In this case, I often set up a master that has some base looks of positions, colours, and beams. Then I'll have a couple masters for intensity (and possibly some strobes) for different groups of fixtures, a few masters with lists that have colours or beam effects for different groups of fixtures, and possibly even a master that has some other "utility" looks like a between-song look and a look for between band sets that I can use.

    There are tons of other situations where you may have multiple cuelists running, either on handles or as virtual masters. Many things that you can do with the effects engine could also be built as chases. Occasionally, I'll find myself building something complex in the effects engine and then decide that it will be easier to edit and control later if I build it as a chase. I'll make a dedicated cuelist for the chase and possibly fire it from my main cuelist as a virtual master.

    I hope this gives you some ideas and clarity. Feel free to ask for more details.

    Thanks.
  • W8TAHW8TAH Registered User
    edited April 2007
    ya - that makes a lot of sense -- i can see using them in that way -- i think i was attacking it wrong - -i was thinking of having multiple cues running at the same time (like to theater stacks running at once)

    TIM
  • W8TAHW8TAH Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Tom -- Can you explain your idea number two a bit more (I hate to sound like a newbie -- but I have never done this sort of thing at all -- and we have a kids version of American Idol comming up in May (we call it Medina Idol) so some of this might be very helpful

    Tim
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited April 2007
    Tim,

    You do end up having multiple cues running at the same time, but your cuelists aren't all traditional theatre cue stacks that have large sequences containing lots of information for all of your fixtures. You still generally have one "main" cuelist for your show (or maybe not even that, if you're running everything on-the-fly) and then your other cuelists are generally specific looks that get piled on top of this.

    Here's a more detailed example of number 2. I think the awards banquet example illustrates it well, so I'll explain that in a bit more detail.

    You have a main cuelist running on a master that has a series of stage looks. These looks will include cyc washes, colour accents on set pieces, texture gobos, and possibly other components. This list is built so that you can gracefully transition between these looks as the night progresses. You may even have "video looks" built in this list that drop the intensity and/or deepen the colours of these looks.

    On your other masters, you may have:
    An HTP podium special handle that has front and back lights.
    An HTP stage wash handle that has front and back lights.
    An HTP handle for your DMX controlled fogger.

    Your producer tells you that he wants a big ballyhoo anytime an award winner is announced while the band plays and they make their way up to the stage. You build a new cuelist for this. Cue 1 takes all of the hard edge moving lights, puts them in open white, and puts them in a ballyhoo. Cue 2 moves all of these lights toward the stage in a 6 count to draw attention back to the stage.

    During the operation of the show, you have your base look playing and your podium special up at a good level for the video guys. An award winner is announced. You play your ballyhoo cue and everyone goes wild (for the lighting, of course). As the winner goes to the stage, you play the second award cue that brings lights back to the stage and you bring up your stage wash fader. When the award winner reaches the stage, you release the ballyhoo cuelist and all of the lights return to their previous positions and looks because your primary cuelist was still running in the background the whole time. Your stage wash fader is still up so everybody can do the big grip and grin (shake hands and smile for the photo opportunity). When the award winner leaves the stage, you bring the stage wash fader down and we're back into our stage look with the podium light up, all ready for the next award. If this is the last award for this department, as you bring the stage wash fader down, you run the next "basic look" cue to change things up visually.

    By setting up the console this way, you can save yourself a lot of cue building. You don't need to have a big, choreographed cuelist with a series of cues for every single award winner. You've built your base looks and a series of reusable handles that allow you to run the show as you go.

    Does that make more sense now?

    Thanks.
  • W8TAHW8TAH Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Tom:

    Yes, it makes much more sense -- I am quickly discovering that i have a lot to learn -- the good news is im enjoying it greatly and things are going well -- and better yet, the pastor and worship leader are very happy with the results.

    TIM
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited April 2007
    Happy clients is always a good thing. I'm glad that things are making sense to you. There's a lot of good information to be found in manuals, but it often doesn't really start to "click" until you start really thinking about how the concepts can be applied in real show situations.
  • W8TAHW8TAH Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Tom:

    Yes, I am noticing that quite a bit - - Things are comming together and I'm learning fast. Tomorrow night is the awards show, so i Gelled my wall washers (primary red, yellow, green and blue - the colors our kids club uses) and I have constructed a couple chases (one that builds outward evenly across the wall then resets, and then the other one that builds out and then falls back) I am going to also program a couple more tomorrow (hopefully) using the front rack and chandaliers.

    The explaination you gave me make sense, I think, but i have a couple questions

    1. you mentioned the basic set of stage looks -- should i put that at the high end of the faders, or start with fader 1?

    2. if i have one of the chases running on a handle, should i just leave it runing and pull the handle down? or start and stop it each time?

    Thanks a bunch --

    TIM
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited April 2007
    I usually think of my first and last playback masters as the easiest to get to without thinking, so I would keep that in consideration. I always end up putting my primary show cuelist on the far right master (8 on the Wholehog 2 and 10 on the Wholehog 3, but I can't honestly tell you why I do it this way. At this point, it's just become habit. I've thought about this briefly, and here's the 3 most logical reasons that I've come up with:

    1) I probably spent time early in my career working on a show that was set up this way by someone else and the next time I sat in front of a console it seemed like the right thing to do.

    2) The GM is on the left and I sure as heck don't want to be accidentally grabbing that.

    3) Some other consoles I've used have the main cuelist faders in the center of the console with subs on the left, so it feels comfortable.

    None of these seem really motivating enough to say that there's a "right" way to do it. While #2 sounds severe, I can't remember ever having accidentally grabbed my GM. I'd say do whatever feels the best to you.

    If you won't be using the fixtures in your chases when the chase isn't up, then it shouldn't matter. The chase *will* be running the whole time, even if the fader is down, so here's a few things to consider:

    1) If the chase is always running, you won't know where it will be each time you bring up the fader. If you want it to always start out right in the middle, you'll need to stop and start it.

    2) If you're working with any non-intensity parameters that are changing in the chase, consider whether or not anyone would see positions changing or hear colour or beam parameters changing as your chase runs in the background. (doesn't sound like it will be an issue in this case)

    3) Since the chase is running, this means that the console is using some of its processing to deal with it. If you happened to be working on a *huge* show on the Wholehog 2, you may get to a point where you want to be very conscious of only having playbacks active that are actually contributing to your stage looks. (also sounds like it won't be an issue)

    There are some cuelist options that may help you out in your situation.

    Hold Pig and press the Choose key for your chase. This opens the cuelist window.
    Press the Options button on the toolbar at the top of the window.

    The "+Go when off 0" option will run the cuelist when you bring up the fader.

    The "Reset when released" option will take the current cue indicator back to the first cue when the list is released so that it always starts the same way.

    I hope this helps.
  • W8TAHW8TAH Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Oh Cool - that makes a lot of sense -- i'll fiddle with that tomorrow when i get to work -- in addition -- i found out today that i am going to be doing lighting for a music competition Mass Choir event on friday!

    so its one more chance to play with it and try some good stuff
  • W8TAHW8TAH Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Tom -- i have tried a bunch of stuff today and its working sweet!!! -- for the awards ceremony tonight i have the following set up

    on individual handles i have cue lists with one cue (essentially scenes) for the following

    - house lights
    - stage wash
    - podium special
    - puppet stage special
    - the upstage wall wash

    i also have 2 chases (one for my back stage wall in the organization colors) and one using my front bar


    The chases are set to go on above zero and reset on release

    Those will get run when the kids receive an award

    We will give it all a shot and see how it works out

    TIM
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited April 2007
    Thanks Tim. I'm really glad that things are working well for you. Please let me know how the show goes. I'd be willing to bet that by the end of the night you'll have even more ideas about how you can set things up next time.
  • W8TAHW8TAH Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Tom:

    The show went very very well -- i can definatly see why you market the big expansion wings - you can burn up handles quick.

    I do indeed have more and more ideas of what i can do - and more and more reading that i need to get done ! Was the approach that I took proper, or is there a better way to utilize my resources for this type of a setup?


    This is really a lot of fun!

    Thanks for all your help --

    TIM
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited April 2007
    Tim,

    You're very welcome.

    Your setup seems perfectly reasonable. With you as the operator, you're the one that has to be happy with how things are laid out and feel like you can control everything you need. When I'm running for live music on the fly, I end up with lots of faders for various looks, bumps, and effects that I can access quickly. When I have picky video guys, I'll sometime feel the need to separate the front lights and back lights for my washes and specials onto two faders.

    It's great to hear that you're having fun. Thanks for continuing to keep us posted about how things are going.

    Thanks.
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