Roadhog

cormacjackcormacjack Registered User, DL Beta
edited October 2009 in Wholehog 3 General Discussion
http://www.highend.com/news_events/news/news_detail.asp?news_id=390

Hi tom/Brad/Mitch,
Any chance of a post about the new console and what it can and can't do?

Regards Cormac
«1

Comments

  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Looks like a replacement level console for the now outdated HOG 1000/500 line.

    I don't see anything about networking it into other H3 systems though or the ability to run networked DPs for expansion, etc.... I would think that it is capable though as it is running H3PC on an XPe platform.
  • jxgriffijxgriffi Registered User, DL Beta, Hog Beta
    edited March 2007
    Here's what Brad posted on the LN:

    Low cost
    No networking, external monitors or on-board SMPTE
    Limited to 4 universes (no expanding with DP's or widgets)
    You can connect USB Wings and USB SMPTE Widget
    Operates only on H3 software...no Hog II.

    That's all I know for now.
  • cormacjackcormacjack Registered User, DL Beta
    edited March 2007
    Ok,
    I was thinking much the same as both posts but was trying to work out the high end console hierarchy with Hog III being at the top ,IPC next and perhaps roadhog after or am i missing something..

    cormac
  • ryanwilkinsonryanwilkinson Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Yes, it is lower then the iPC. It is also supposedly cheaper then the ipc as well. (half the price is what I heard).

    It is about time for a replacement of the old hog 2 line consoles.
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    Everything that's been said here so far is true.

    The Road Hog is the least expensive member of the Wholehog family, with a price approximately half that of a Hog iPC. If you need a more accurate quote, you should contact a local dealer, as prices vary by region and even between individual quotes.

    The Road Hog has 4 universes of DMX. There are ports for these universes on the console. This cannot be expanded with USB widgets or with DP2000s.

    The Road Hog runs Hog 3PC software. It uses the same .msi installer that the Hog iPC and Hog 3PC stand-alone use, but it will have its own system restore image. Show files, of course, are fully compatible between Road Hog and other products running Wholehog control software.

    The Road Hog has 2 internal 12" touchscreens. There are not connections for external monitors.

    The Road Hog does not support networking to other consoles or peripherals.

    The Road Hog supports up to 8 playback mini-wings or 2 full-sized expansion wings.

    The Road Hog supports our USB SMPTE timecode widget.

    The Road Hog has no internal removable storage (CDRW / ZIP) drives. It ships with a Flying Pig Systems 1GB USB memory stick and will support USB CD / DVD drives for backing up shows.

    That covers most of the basics and there is additional information available on the High End Systems web site at http://www.highend.com.

    Feel free to ask any questions you may have about this exciting new product.
  • AndrisAndris Registered User
    edited March 2007
    What about MIDI?
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    Both the Wholehog 3 and the Hog iPC have MIDI inputs and outputs. The Road Hog does not.
  • ahelgorahelgor Registered User
    edited March 2007
    the desk looks great, and will fill an empty hole in the range of desks..
    -I wan't one of those usb memory sticks,hehe ;)
  • tbslytertbslyter Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited March 2007
    Hi Tom,

    How does the physical size and weight compare to the Hog iPC? Will the roadcase be similar in style to the iPC? I.e. rolling luggage style?

    Thanks for the great explanations.

    Travis
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    Travis,

    I honestly haven't seen the Road Case yet. I think they may still be designing it. I'll look into this and let you know as soon as I have an answer.

    It may be a bit late in the process for suggestions, but do you have any specific requests or preferences with regards to what style of case it would be? Do you like the Hog iPC rolling case?

    Thanks.
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Two things I like:
    The faders align with the touch screen! YAY:headbang:
    I hated this on the iPC:aargh4:


    And the Big one!!!!!! It's about time I can get a hog 3 console rental for the same price as a hog 2 from those damned companies that have crappy old hog 2 desks.

    :notworthy:

    I freaking hate hog 2 consoles. That's why I skipped them all together and now hopefully vendors who were too damned stubborn to buy a hog 3 will buy a road hog and I can get a console I actually like.
    It doesn't crash does it:footinmouth:
  • barnes2000barnes2000 Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited March 2007
    It looks cool. I have to say, though, I'm a little jealous. A little over four years ago, I made a giant step in purchasing a Wholehog III, and I haven't regreted it. Since then, Hog iPC with Flash Drive ability has come around, Hog3PC with Flash Drive ability has come around, and now the Roadhog, with , yes, a Flash Drive. When oh when will the Original Hog3 have this ability?
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited March 2007
    :1zhelp:
    barnes2000 wrote:
    When oh when will the Original Hog3 have this ability?


    I second that Scott. :drive: :rippedhand:

    :1zhelp: ...How many CDs do I gotta burn through...:1zhelp:
  • leebotleebot Registered User
    edited March 2007
    I have come to the conclusion that flash drives are not a stable backup device. Don't get me wrong theyt are better than floppy disks but I have had too many of them fail for seemingly no reason at all. I have taken them fom on laptop whre they were working and put them into a laptop and nnot be able to read them. Most resently I lost a show file I had saved from an IPC. So I now always save to a cd. They are so cheap it is just not worth taking a chance.
  • tbslytertbslyter Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited March 2007
    Hi Tom,

    I like the iPC rolling style case. It fits well in car trunks / seats and is shipping-friendly for UPS and Fedex.

    I had some suggestions for the iPC but that's a done deal and this case should be easier. I like the accessories case on top. I would make sure that fits a keyboard, mouse, discs and manual as well as rooom for a USB CD-RW. The USB CD-Drive will be huge. First, as many have stated here, thumb drives have some reliability issues. Second, if you are transfering from Hog III you will need a CD-RW as it doesn't support thumb drives so there is a compatibility issue there. Right now no way to get shows from Hog III to Road Hog.

    I would assume the desklights will have to be stored in the case. I would put them in some sort of hold to keep them from bouncing around.

    It would be nice is there was some way make some movable dividers or straps so that you could strap things down inside the storage bin so your accessories aren't flopping around, particularly the drives. Something like you see with laptop cases with velcro/felt dividers that can be repositioned. Tough to make something movable yet durable though so that may not work.

    Unfortunately the weight of the lid with the storage makes is an iPC case a little bulky to take off with one person, but I don't know if there is a way around that.

    One thing I would be careful about is to make sure if the console is designed to be left in the case lid that all of the connections on the back are clear from the foam in the case. Sometimes the connectors are low enough that the console actually rests on the connectors rather than the feet. You end up shifting the console out of it's case slightly, then forgetting to reseat it properly. Or you have to prop it up with something or worse you leave it and connectors bend or become loose.

    Also I would carfully check to see the fit and padding when the console is stood on the wheels. We've had some issues with our iPCs shifting slightly. The newer models seem to be a litter better.

    Wow, that's got long in a hurry. Thanks for asking, good to chat. I think this will be a strong product.

    Travis
  • CRBatchelorCRBatchelor Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Glad to see that Highend is is still hard at work on completing the entire product line, but being an original III user, I too would like to know when we will have a console that will have some of the basic things that the 2 had and some of the cool new features that the new models are including... I know there was alot of talk about the linux build needing to be overhauled to make some things like the USB pen drives work, etc.
  • barnes2000barnes2000 Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited March 2007
    tbslyter wrote:
    I had some suggestions for the iPC but that's a done deal and this case should be easier. I like the accessories case on top. I would make sure that fits a keyboard, mouse, discs and manual as well as rooom for a USB CD-RW. The USB CD-Drive will be huge. First, as many have stated here, thumb drives have some reliability issues. Second, if you are transfering from Hog III you will need a CD-RW as it doesn't support thumb drives so there is a compatibility issue there. Right now no way to get shows from Hog III to Road Hog.

    Travis
    Didn't even think of this. I guess you could use your laptop, and move the show file from the CD to your flash drive.
  • mikewoodldmikewoodld Registered User
    edited March 2007
    ha, I would even be happy if HES sold the USB drives seperately, I need some new ones and having the logo on them is awesome.
  • eboxereboxer Registered User
    edited March 2007
    I also would like the flash drive . . . Tom i think you guys could make a killing on those.:D

    Anycase, i think the best idea for the road case is the IPC rolling style. Its just so quick to pop off the lid and plug in what you need to. If it does support some widgets, could you maybe integrate slots for these to sit in?

    One thing i wasnt sure about was the arm rest. Are they like on the 3 and the IPC? can i stash my pens and all in it?
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    Travis,

    I unplugged a Hog iPC, dragged it across the test lab to set it next to the Road Hog for comparison, and completely forgot to discuss size. Sorry about that. Things have obviously been very hectic lately.

    The Road Hog front panel is the same size and sits at roughly the same height as the Hog iPC.

    The integrated screens make the console taller than a Hog iPC with monitors, but in my opinion this also helps the Road Hog to look more proportional. I also like the fact that it's easy to pick up and carry without help.

    I'm not sure of the exact weight, but I would say that the Road Hog weighs less than a Hog iPC with monitors.
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    Scott,

    The reason that we haven't enabled USB mass storage devices on the Wholehog 3 console is because, frankly, the v2.4.19 linux kernel that we run has really bad support for them. I actually did some testing to prove this on a console and mapped my ZIP to a USB memory stick and turned on autobackup. I was having corruption problems within a matter of hours.

    We are currently working on making some significant changes to our entire code base that will allow us to upgrade both the compiler that we use and the linux kernel, which will pave the way for getting USB drives working well on the console.
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    Chris,

    I also own a Wholehog 3 console and have been running shows on it since the v1.1 days.

    I'm curious to hear what other areas where you feel the Wholehog 3 is lacking when compared to the Hog iPC or Road Hog. The software for *all* products in the Wholehog 3 family is being built from exactly the same source code. There are slight differences in the user interface (like finger-sized toolbar buttons on the consoles that don't have hard buttons around the screens), but there shouldn't be anything "missing" functionally from the Wholehog 3 console.
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    Everyone,

    I'll pass on your suggestions regarding the road case. Thanks for all of the good points.

    I'm sure that we will be selling the Flying Pig Systems 1GB USB memory sticks as a spare part, and I doubt they will be horribly expensive. If you play your cards right and come visit me at the office or a trade show, I might even just give you one as swag.
  • mikewoodldmikewoodld Registered User
    edited March 2007
    teerickson wrote:
    Everyone,

    I'm sure that we will be selling the Flying Pig Systems 1GB USB memory sticks as a spare part, and I doubt they will be horribly expensive. If you play your cards right and come visit me at the office or a trade show, I might even just give you one as swag.

    Well, whenever you start selling them, let us know, because I know I will definitely buy one.
  • AndrisAndris Registered User
    edited March 2007
    So if there is no built in MIDI, is it possible to slave a console for redundant backup?
  • jxgriffijxgriffi Registered User, DL Beta, Hog Beta
    edited March 2007
    My only complaint (so far) is the lack of at least 1 external monitor. It's always nice to have an external for either programmer or output without covering up everything else....

    I'm definitely looking forward to see this thing in person (and what I can light with the "crotch" lights as someone so eloquently called them).....
  • CRBatchelorCRBatchelor Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Tom --

    I just keep running into issues/bugs that should work, i.e. record state, and keep getting told, "it is a know issue, and we are working on it"... The pen drive thing, yes would be nice, but not really necessary. I would rather see some of the bugs and glitches fixed in the OS so features tha are supposed to be in the console, actually work!

    Then there are the list of features that the other guys have in their consoles which would be nice if we could get, aka, console lockout...

    And I am sure that people are working hard on the OS but it is just not public knowledge...
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited March 2007
    teerickson wrote:
    If you play your cards right and come visit me at the office or a trade show, I might even just give you one as swag.

    I think i will choose bying option, France US France should be a beat too expensive for a USB Key :D, even if I add all the pleasure i would have to meet the HES team.
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    Andris,

    Because of the lack of MIDI, there isn't a great backup solution for this console. Keep in mind that this is targeted at small shows and installations.
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    Jon,

    I agree that I find myself wanting more even when I go out with a Hog iPC that has 3 monitors instead of the 4 that I get with the Wholehog 3 console.

    The Road Hog's lack of external monitor support is one of the things that separates it from the Hog iPC console. Consider this: The Road Hog MSRP is approximately half that of the Hog iPC. This prices it in the neighborhood of a Jands Hog 1000. You're getting a console with 2 12 inch color touchscreens for roughly the price of a console with a small internal screen and one external monitor, neither of which were touchscreens. The Road Hog also offers 4 universes instead of 2 and expandability with up to 8 additional banks of 10 playbacks using USB mini wings or full-sized expansion wings.

    The Road Hog is also likely to end up on smaller shows, where the output window can comfortably fit on an 800x600 screen and the directory windows will contain fewer items. This should make it easier to cope with losing the third monitor.
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    Chris,

    We do have a list of known bugs, feature requests, and work to be done. We make conscious decisions about what issues to address based on impact to users, user requests, development time involved, and a number of other factors. We do this so that we can make the best use of our resources.

    Almost all of the work involved for USB support involves upgrading our kernel and our compiler. The user interface changes that need to be made are minor, since this is already handled on the Hog iPC and the Road Hog. The kernel and compiler upgrade are actually necessary for a completely different project that's happening right now, so it makes logical sense to put a small amount of additional time in to handle the rest of the USB memory stick functionality.
  • jxgriffijxgriffi Registered User, DL Beta, Hog Beta
    edited March 2007
    Tom...

    Thanks for the response...and just having used a Hog1000 the other day, I completely realize that with the 2 internal screens, the Road Hog offers more than the current 1000 (trust me...I kept wishing there was something I could use with Hog 3 software that wasn't a PC....and affordable during that gig!)

    With everything being said, I really like the Road Hog. I am already recommending it for 2 installations that WANT Hog 3 software, but didn't want the price of the iPC or the "computer" of Hog3PC.

    So, am I disappointed there's no external monitor...of course. No matter what is presented, we always want more. Will it stop me from using or recommending the console....absolutely not.

    Thanks for all of the hard work (this is for everyone out there...wish I was there :phone: ) and I truly look forward to many more years of work on the console.
  • garygary Registered User
    edited March 2007
    good work i can't wait to see it.
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    Jon,

    Thanks for the kind words. I absolutely understand what you're saying about missing features. I remember when the Hog iPC came out and really missing my 4th monitor, hard buttons around the monitors, and intensity step buttons.

    Personally, I'm very happy with the diversity of our control system product line now. We really have a console solution for every need and budget.
  • ahelgorahelgor Registered User
    edited March 2007
    but i still want a pda remote,hehe ;)

    -speaking of that.. i know it's probably been busy around with the new release and all, but have you taken a look at my email question Tom?
  • eboxereboxer Registered User
    edited March 2007
    teerickson wrote:
    Andris,

    Because of the lack of MIDI, there isn't a great backup solution for this console. Keep in mind that this is targeted at small shows and installations.

    If you're interested, check out the Upstaging DDL. It was originally designed for the Hog II. It has the ability to caputre 16 different looks across 4 universes of DMX, as well as an A/B switch between consoles.
  • Kris.gKris.g Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Anders......... try looking at the Sony UX series....... a handheld PC (with windows xp not mobile)

    May do the trick for you.

    http://vaio.sony.co.uk/view/ShowProductCategory.action?site=voe_en_GB_cons&category=VN+UX+Series

    Let me know what you think.

    Kris.
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2007
    eboxer wrote:
    If you're interested, check out the Upstaging DDL. It was originally designed for the Hog II. It has the ability to caputre 16 different looks across 4 universes of DMX, as well as an A/B switch between consoles.

    Actually 10 looks...I own one of these for every H3 DP-2000 I have....between these and having an H3-PC on hand, I no longer need to drag around a backup console.

    Full details @:

    http://www.dmxdatalynx.com
  • jxgriffijxgriffi Registered User, DL Beta, Hog Beta
    edited March 2007
    Ok Marty...now you have confused me....

    Following your link, I get a financial planning service. Are you saying whenever you buy a DP2000, you need financial planning????

    :poke:
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2007
    DOH!!!:dunce:

    Thanks for pointing that out Jon

    OK I fixed the URL....gotta remember....never post before morning coffee:aiwebs_007:
  • eboxereboxer Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Actually 10 looks...

    I thought i had 16 . . . could be wrong, it's been a few months . . . .
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    Ha.

    I get the proper Data Lynx page when I click the link, but I can see that Marty edited his post at some point.

    I'd second Marty and say that the Data Lynx is one of the nicest switcher / panic boxes that I've worked with.
  • aphylotusaphylotus Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Hello,

    returned from Frankfurt where I had the occasion to see and play with the Desk.

    Nice one, seems to run faster than the iPC. The Desk itself is very nice, it is higher than the ipc , especially when the screens of the ipc are tilted backwards.

    The encoder wheels are in plastic, so be prepared for some spare parts to replace them with the ones from the 3 or the ipc. The Lights in from of the consoles are a good idea, but as far as I've seen you cannot dim the blue ones.

    The place to put the arms on is smaller and harder than the one on the ipc and it cannot be opened to put, f.ex, the desklight in it.

    Nice is that the fader do align the screen. The usb stick is very nice, and yes, it was still there, nobody stole it :) I guess this will be a thing on the shows, it is so visible and I guess it will happen mor than once that it will be stolen. Didn't try what happens if a cool sound guy will come and unplug it during a show (oh, i quickly need a usb stick to copy whatsoever to my digital desk bla bla bla you probably know these guys).

    there is no control panel like the ipc, then screen setting f.ex are done in setup/control panel directly in hog3pc. The desklights cannot be changed to blue, only white LEDs.

    Bottom line, really nice and cool desk, for the price and the features a real nice one, guess it will have a huge success. There will be plenty of theses desks around pretty sure. I guess the flightcase will be taller than the iPC one, and yes, I like the trolly FC of the iPC, I think this would be nice for the roadhog also

    Great Job !!! Now don't tell me that all of You guys where on the tradeshow too, I saw fons (sales europe).

    Tom
  • RomanRoman Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Dear Tom, I completly agree with you. The new console will find it's way. Was nice to talk to all of you. Thanks for the best coffee on Prolight&Sound.

    All The Best
    Roman:hogsign:
  • hillaryknoxhillaryknox Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Is there any conceivable chance of support for an external USB MIDI interface ever being added to this console ?

    I could definitely see this console as a fantastic option for small (& maybe even not-so-small) Broadway & other theater shows. The limitations are practically inconsequential when you compare this console to its big brothers vs. comparing a Hog 2 to a Hog 1000. The lack of external monitors is not a big deal for me (I never use them on a Hog 3), *most* theater shows can fit into 4 universes, the price is an absolute steal (which means you can get more lights instead of a more expensive console), but the absence of MIDI is an complete, absolute, no-workaround deal-breaker for me, because in 95% of everything I do, the Obsession (or other conventional console) fires the moving-light console via Midi Show Control.

    SMPTE via USB is already available as an option; please please please consider/re-consider doing the same for MIDI. I just can't see the logic in having to pay twice as much for a console *just* to add MIDI, when it would be relatively simple to do via USB.
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited April 2007
    I agree 100% with hillary.

    The Smpte widget is nice and all, but compared to the price of a midisport 1x1 it is a bit expensive..
    Especially since Midi is included on the Hog 1000, it seems to be the only feature that was not improved upon on the road hog.

    Joshua Wood
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited April 2007
    Hillary and Josh,

    I'll pass on your request to the powers here and see if there's anything we can do about this. I certainly think that it's conceivable to add drivers for a third party MIDI device like the MidiSport, but adding drivers that we can't control always has some risk associated with it.

    For now, just remember that the Road Hog is targeted to smaller productions and that if you need MIDI you can certainly use either the Wholehog 3 console or Hog iPC.

    Thanks.
  • AndrisAndris Registered User
    edited April 2007
    teerickson wrote:
    For now, just remember that the Road Hog is targeted to smaller productions and that if you need MIDI you can certainly use either the Wholehog 3 console or Hog iPC.

    Thanks.

    That is not such a good rationale Tom. In this world of more high tech finding its way into productions (ie, DIY hardware, open source communities, general geekery on the rise) cross communication and integration between control equipment has become more commonplace. I work on plenty of smaller productions that utilize a lot of high tech in their performance and MIDI is used quite a bit to pull all aspects of performance control (audio, video, even scenic) together. It has been cost prohibitive to rent a larger console and I have had to go to other manufacturers to find a control solution that works within the budget.
    MIDI implementation to end users with a console like this is more important to us than you think it is.
    The hog 2 had a great MIDI implementation which has since disappeared in any iteration current of hog. Why go backwards into the future?
  • tbslytertbslyter Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited April 2007
    This MIDI discussion vividly illustrates how hard it is to meet market expectations and make everybody happy. It's not really a matter of stepping backwards. It only appears that way to certain segments of the market. In general, (I know there are exceptions) I think many segments of the industry (TV, Concerts, Sports, Tradeshows) have long since joined the film, TV, recording and presentation industries using SMPTE timecode as the standard for timing/syncing & automation. Therefore you're seeing it replace MIDI in many products. When the Hog II family was built MIDI was a popular choice for timecode and other interfaces. Now LTC/VITC SMPTE timecode is more of the standard (particularly outside the theater market) and your seeing the Hog III products reflect that by offering the LTC SMPTE widget and external IOI.

    You just don't MIDI connections on the vast majority of the profession auiod audio/ broadcast video playback devices that people use to trip consoles nowadays. Even scene automation, pyro and other interfaces are offering SMPTE interfaces. I have nothing against MIDI or MSC, but the fact is these console products are marketed to a wider audience and SMTPE has more of the market share. So HES offers the LTC SMPTE widget as the option because for many people it seems to be a more current standard. I hope they offer MIDI as an option, but I can understand the reasoning when you look at the larger context of who this console is marketed to.
  • hillaryknoxhillaryknox Registered User
    edited April 2007
    OK, at the risk of this turning into a big back-and-forth thing here, I totally disagree with, well, not all of that, but definitely with the idea that an LTC trigger is somehow more "relevant" in the modern age than a MIDI trigger. The bottom line is that this console without MIDI is significantly hobbled in any circumstance in which it needs to be sync'd to or triggered by anything other than LTC. What happens when you're not syncing to an audio track? "They say" that one of the markets that they're targeting with this product is installations. Without the inclusion of MIDI, you've necessarily excluded any installation that isn't using LTC. Forgetting theater for a minute, there are PLENTY of architectural/entertainment installations that don't require syncronization to audio.

    In fact, to me, if they wanted to market a less expensive console, a more flexible option would have been to include MIDI and exclude an LTC audio option, since there are existing, cheap, no-brainer, off-the-shelf solutions that convert LTC into MTC, which is what plenty of folks out there are already doing with Hog PC. As far as I'm aware, there is currently no way to do the reverse i.e. to convert SMPTE into a Midi Show Control signal, which doesn't even make any sense anyway.

    I'm no software engineer (so please forgive any potential ignorance on my part), but it seems to me that at this point, the addition of MIDI would be pretty simple anyway. The console already has functioning USB, I can buy a MIDI interface for $50 or whatever at the local Guitar Center, the Windows drivers for said MIDI interfaces have already been written, and the Hog 3 software can already deal with MIDI just fine. Seems that the ONLY reason not to add it would be for some kind of marketing reason.

    I'm also no market anaylst, so I can only speak from my own experience. I'm just saying that the potential cost-to-power ratio of this console is SO great that I could see myself using on maybe as much as 40% of the shows I do, however the lack of MIDI renders it unusable for at least 90% of them.
Sign In or Register to comment.