split pages

leebotleebot Registered User
I would like to be able to change the page of playback wings independently from the main playback. The problem I see is when looking at the pages view. How do you display the extra page information? I would say use open + next page on the playback wing to open page info.

Comments

  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Why don't you put main playback in a templat page?
  • ahelgorahelgor Registered User
    edited March 2007
    "Why don't you put main playback in a templat page?"

    that will be ok in many cases, but then you can't change main playbacks page.., and i can see beeing able to swop pages individually for console/wings can be handy.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited March 2007
    ahelgor wrote:
    and i can see beeing able to swop pages individually for console/wings can be handy.

    That can be very useful, if we have 2 levels 1 on evry playbacks and one where we could make playback groups.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Or what could be useful, is to have a "partial" option like templat.
    Partial page would only change playbacks that are include in this page.
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    I think that this is an interesting idea, but I think it could become very tough to keep track of which page(s) are active on which playback surfaces, especially when you consider that we support up to 9 separate playback surfaces (the console faders + 8 mini playback wings).

    Can you give me some examples of how you'd like to use this functionality?

    If I had some ideas about situations that the current page system doesn't handle well we might be able to come up with ideas about how things could be handled better.

    Thanks.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited March 2007
    I think that this request a minimum of organization and rigour.
    When I'm working on live show (like festival) i usually divide my console in differents parts, where each parts is a function (Colour, gobo, dimmer.....), and each parts had always the same maximum numbers of playbacks.

    So eatch "partial" page could be a part.

    do not hesitate to ask more detail, that's clear in my mind but but I am not very good in explanations.

    thanks
    Steph
  • leebotleebot Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Without going to 2 playback wings (I found this setup a little too cumbersome) I would like to have my moving lights looks on the main console playback. Then have a playback wing that has conventional band washes on one page and with a next page toggle be able to control my band specials.
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    Based on the feedback I'm seeing, I think that the best way to handle this may be with "additive pages". Additive pages would behave similarly to additive views. When you change to an additive page, the masters that have playbacks assigned on the additive page would be loaded with the proper lists and scenes, but anything not assigned on the additive page would just show through from the page that had loaded previously. This would allow you to change the playbacks loaded on any combination of masters that you like.

    How does that sound?
  • Kris.gKris.g Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Additive Views???????
    I didn;t know about these...........

    How do you mae use of this function???

    At the moment i've just made sure to redord every window I'll need for each view.

    Kris.
  • leebotleebot Registered User
    edited March 2007
    I saw this in the manual. But I dont quite understand.:dunce: Could you explain "additive views" and how they work?:1zhelp: How would we switch to an additive page?
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Good thinking Tom!:beerchug:

    On Additive Views

    Normally when you select a view (non-additive) it closes all other windows, editors, etc. that you have open and replaces them with the ones recorded into tthe view.

    An additive view simply adds another window to whatever is currently open.

    Good examples of these are the default "Palettes" view is a non-additive view, but the default "Output" and "Programmer" views are additive.

    To see if a view is additive or not do Open+View and select the spreadsheet icon from the top toolbar of the views directory. The far right column will tell you if a given view is additive or not. You can also change a view to be additive or not here.

    So for Pages..I guess it would mean adding a cloumn after the "macro" one for additive.

    Cool:cool:
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Well....when I just checked a new show on the console it seems all of the default views are additive....not sure when that changed, but I could swear that "Palletes" used to be non-additive in an earlier version:friday:
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited March 2007
    "additive pages" is a sweet music in my ears 36_1_11.gif
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Lee,

    In the meantime you can accomplish exactly what you want if you do the following:

    Create 3 pages.

    Page 1 will be your Template page with all your moving light lists on the main console playbacks.

    Page 2 will have all your stage wash looks on the mini-wing

    Page 3 will have all your stage specials on the mini-wing

    Next go under Preferences>>Misc, and under Page Change Options select "Leave In Background" from the drop down list and select "Remember Fader Values" below this.

    Now when you change between Pages 2+3 the other lists will keep running instead of releasing. You will have to "Match" your fader values when changing pages if you have moved any of the faders (look for the vertical blue bar in the left side of that cue-list ledger).

    Hope this helps:)
    :hogsign:
  • Kris.gKris.g Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Thanks Marty........

    I just thought all views were non-Additive.
    So all of my views have the group, colour, beam and posistion in them at the backround so when i close the windows infront of tyhem, they come back.

    Kris.
  • jxgriffijxgriffi Registered User, DL Beta, Hog Beta
    edited March 2007
    I have my "master" view which brings up everything where I normally keep it. I then have "additive" views like "Color" "Beam" etc...which maximize that particular window.

    I like the idea of moving this into pages...I'm just unclear of how it would all work. For my pages, my main console has the stuff that I "always" want there. The wing has stuff that changes. I make a "template" page with the main console faders loaded and the wing empty. That way, no matter where I change, it only moves the wing.

    I'd like to hear more....
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    Marty gave a great description of additive views. If you open up the views directory (Open + View) and look at it in spreadsheet mode, there is an additive column that can be set to Yes or No. If a view is not set as additive, when that view is recalled it will close all open windows and then recall only the windows stored in the view. When an additive view is recalled, it recalls the windows stored in the view on top of any other windows that are already open.

    I generally make a couple of non-additive views that arrange the windows on my screens that I want open most of the time while I'm programming. Then I will record additive views for windows like the effects engine and the colour picker that I may want to open momentarily to change settings while I'm programming.

    My thought for additive views would operate in much the same way. When an additive page is recalled, either from the command line, the page directory, or with the next page button, rather than clearing all of the masters and then loading the playbacks from the new page, the playbacks for the new page would be loaded onto their appropriate masters and all other masters not used in the additive page would still have the playbacks from the previous page on them. This would allow users to build pages that would only affect the masters they wanted and wouldn't change the interface significantly or limit them to groups of 10. The standard page change rules (release all, leave in background, holdover if active) would still apply.

    So...

    What do you think of this idea?
    What have I missed? Is there anything else we could do that would make this functionality even better?
    What other situations do you find difficult to deal with when using our current page functionality?

    Thanks.
  • kmontagnekmontagne Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Tom, I think additive pages is a great idea! Count my vote for it. The interface you described seems like it would work well and be intuitive.

    Thanks,
    Kevin Montagne
    kevin (at) litkam (dot) com
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    This one has me thinking a bit, so here's a few more thoughts for your collective consideration:

    1) Would not being able to identify what pages playbacks are coming from make anything more difficult on the console? With this new concept of additive pages, it could be possible to have multiple pages active at once and not have an easy way to determine which pages are responsible for which playbacks or masters.

    2) Currently, new pages can be created as blank or as copies of existing pages. The "Record Page" syntax isn't currently used for anything. I think that it could be very useful if Record Page X would record whatever playbacks are currently visible on masters to a new page, regardless of their current source. I also think it might be useful if there were an easy way to include the restore activity macros as a part of this record operation.

    What do you think?
  • Kris.gKris.g Registered User
    edited March 2007
    This is sort of going back to the colour thread we have also......
    But what about being able to assign a colour to different pages then from that the choose buttons (on screen) would show the colour of the page were looking at.

    Kris.
  • Kris.gKris.g Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Wait........
    Just realised this wouldn;t work at the Expansion wing does not have colour screens.

    Oops

    Kris.
  • kmontagnekmontagne Registered User
    edited March 2007
    teerickson wrote:
    1) Would not being able to identify what pages playbacks are coming from make anything more difficult on the console? With this new concept of additive pages, it could be possible to have multiple pages active at once and not have an easy way to determine which pages are responsible for which playbacks or masters.

    What do you think?

    Tom, it seems like you could have any additional window, maybe as an option off the output window, that would act like a sources window mapping the playbacks and masters to the appropriate page that was controlling it. It could be simple list with one column have the numbered playbacks/masters and another column with the page number & name.

    --
    Kevin Montagne
    kevin (at) litkam (dot) com
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited March 2007
    teerickson wrote:
    2) Currently, new pages can be created as blank or as copies of existing pages. The "Record Page" syntax isn't currently used for anything. I think that it could be very useful if Record Page X would record whatever playbacks are currently visible on masters to a new page, regardless of their current source. I also think it might be useful if there were an easy way to include the restore activity macros as a part of this record operation.

    I love the idea to record/copy a playback to an other page note active.
    1. "Record Page X" would Record the choosen playback to page X
    2. "Pig + Record Page X" would Record all playbacks currently visible on masters to page X.
    3. Record + choose Page X" would Record the playback where choose had been pushed to page X
    4. Same with Copy.
  • leebotleebot Registered User
    edited March 2007
    I think this is on the right track. That could be a really cool feature.
  • HgSiegenthalerHgSiegenthaler Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited March 2007
    works the NEXT PAGE buttons on the wing an on the desk always together or is it possible to seperate this buttons?
    If its possible, i woul like to have the option separate the pages.
    E.g. i have a wing and woul like to separate the pages: i have 2 page directory, one for the main desk and one for the wing. So i can change the pages on the wing without change the page on the maindesk.
    Cheers
    Hg
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    Hg,

    This is similar to the functionality that has been requested in this thread, but the solution that seems to be the most popular at this point is an idea of additive pages that has been discussed above. I believe that additive pages would possibly provide enough flexibility for you, but not the exact functionality that you're looking for. What do you think of the ideas that have been discussed here already?

    Thanks.
  • HgSiegenthalerHgSiegenthaler Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited April 2007
    I don't like the additive page function idea, or my english is to bad to understand it ;)What is if i need fader 3 on the next page but i have fader 3 on the active page in use?Would it be possible to switch the pages on the wing seperat from the pages on the maindesk?so i can have e.g. 20 faders with frontlight on the wing and i can switch between this faders without change the main 10 cuelist on the desk...CheersHg
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited April 2007
    Hg,

    If you were to build a page that only had your 20 front light faders on the wing and you set this page as additive, you could go to this page at any time and it would load those 20 faders without affecting any other playback masters.

    It would not, however, offer you the ability to load just a specific master from a specific page that contains multiple masters.

    I hope this clears things up.
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