Audio

RKHCKPRKHCKP Registered User
edited June 2011 in Axon
Hey can anyone tell me if you can run audio clips from the Axon:1zhelp: ? I have triggered media clips with audio via Catalyst, but was wondering if there is an audio out on the Axon and is so, have HES placed a audio play forward setting to use this function?:phone:

if not, i think it would be a great feature to add so that it could possibly be used on some events coming up.:poke:

Comments

  • MitchMitch Registered User, HES Staff
    edited February 2007
    Hello, unfortunately Axon does not have any Audio capabilities.

    Thanks
  • Kris.gKris.g Registered User
    edited February 2007
    It wouldn;t really be practial to add audio to the Axon.
    Remember the purpose behind the axon is to intgrate with rigs using the DL2's Everythings about both fixtures is exactly the same only the Axon does not include the motion section (Pan, tilt, dimmer,projector,camera) that the DL2 has.

    This is so that in a rig containing DL2's you can also sync the DL2's with screens, other projectors etc etc.
    Also, the axon is good for pre-programming your show that contains DL2's without the fixtures being there as the DMX footprint/patch is exactly the same.
    All you would have to do when you arrive at the venue is swap the axon's for DL2's and program the motion section.

    Kris.
  • RKHCKPRKHCKP Registered User
    edited February 2007
    I disagree with it being not practical. it would be way practical to have a audio out for the Axon, when you want to use several DL2 units to build a collage for one big video to use and then have a audio track to go along with it, the Axon then would be witin sync, because it is the same medium format of the DL2 units. I have used DL1 units with Catalyst to trigger audio feeds that track with media files.

    Just as you said, sync with other DL2 units, that is the reason to have it on an Axon so that the same video file that is being used within DL2 units can be in the Axon and you now can sync both audio & video.

    I have used that feature on Catalyst within several projects now, in fact one was for a network TV playback. It is faster than having a Audio guy & Graphic guy trying to sync. It is all done within one.

    I just think it would be a great addition to have within the same device that gives you all this Collage features.

    Keith
  • Kris.gKris.g Registered User
    edited February 2007
    I do agree it would be a great feature to have,
    I have used it on the catalyst too and it's great for those corporate events that I seem to be spending most of my time on.

    I just think that because HES are wanting to keep both the DL.2 and the Axon as simaliar as possible that this may not happen.

    One can Hope :P

    Kris.
  • Frankv1234Frankv1234 Registered User
    edited February 2007
    it would be an easy option to have the audio as an extra fixture for the axon. in that whay the global and graphic part stays the same for dl2 and axon.

    so dl2 has
    1 x motion
    1 x global
    3 x graphic layhers

    and axon has
    1 x audio (sound level, balance, eq, phase etc. etc)
    1 x global
    3 x graphic layhers

    folder 254 can be an folder excluded on the dl2. on the axon this would be the folder where .mov or wav or mp3 or any other audio files can be stored.

    Frank Verbeek
    Production Partners
  • Kris.gKris.g Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Think about that one Frank.........

    If you were doing a show and wanted to play back a .mov file with the audio too through your DL.2's
    You would set you desk to:
    Folder - 254
    File - 002

    Then it would not play throught your DL.2's, you would just get the audio feed (and the .mov file on screens if they are attached to the axon)


    I see what your saying however, I just don;t think the seprate older is wise, When you could have any file in any folder that has audio along with it being out put from the axon.

    Also i'm not sure what people would think about the extra fixture for the axon....... could cause a few problems for people who already have DL.2's and Axon's in their rig.
    Having to re-address everything in their rig when after updating the software on their axons. so they can fit in the audio fixtures profiles.

    Kris.
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited February 2007
    I think having audio playback on AXON could be very useful.

    I agree with Frank that probably the best way to keep the functions separate would be to add another "fixture" to be patched ie "Axon Audio" profile.

    Additionally it would be great if we could playback DVD footage directly form the drive on the AXON and output video and audio. Possibly by assigning the DVD drive as an input device that the AXON would need to switch to.

    Like s-video vs camera on DL.2....add an option for DVD....I realize this lives in the Motion portion of DL.2 which is not patched in AXON, but maybe this could be part of a new fixture profile "part" if you will to be patched.

    Also just to clarify Quicktime .mov files will not work on AXON.....only MPEG-2 (.mov is used in Catalyst), so unless new file types are recognized by AXON/DL.2 I imagine it would need to be an MPEG-2 audio only file. Or two versions of your content. One with video only for the DL.2s and one with video + audio (or just audio) for the AXON.

    This does not even address a possible Audio Input though, so again we would need a parameter that would switch between internal vs external audio sources

    I have also requested serial control of devices like video switchers:
    http://forums.highend.com/showthread.php?t=3401

    So maybe this could all be lumped into one profile called AXON Server or something.
  • Frankv1234Frankv1234 Registered User
    edited February 2007

    Also just to clarify Quicktime .mov files will not work on AXON.....only MPEG-2 (.mov is used in Catalyst), so unless new file types are recognized by AXON/DL.2 I imagine it would need to be an MPEG-2 audio only file. Or two versions of your content. One with video only for the DL.2s and one with video + audio (or just audio) for the AXON.

    This does not even address a possible Audio Input though, so again we would need a parameter that would switch between internal vs external audio sources

    The reason that is was naming the .mov file is that its a file that is also used on the catalyst. When working in combinations with axon and catalyst this saves me time converting my custom content into separate files. I now have to convert my movie into mpgeg2 for the dl2 and use .mov files on the catalyst for pixalmapping. Support of .mov files is just an extra for me it is not a priority. playing an audio from file no mather what format is for me the most important issue. If wav is easy to implent than it have to be wav, is it mp3 than mp3 is also ok. any solution at this moment will do.

    Controlling rs232 equipment is also high on my wishlist, but is this something we want from the axon or are we gone post it in the hog3 request list. There are a number of production that i want to use rs232 controls without having an axon there.....

    Greetings

    Frank Verbeek
  • RKHCKPRKHCKP Registered User
    edited February 2007
    i think that if HES just adds this as an additional run feature within playback, like it is on the Catalyst, then you would not have to worry about patching another fixture type or for that matter change anything within you setup. It comes as an addition within the new software update. as for playing movies, your right, I do know that .mov is used for QT on a mac or PC, but MPeg2s are used on the Axon & DL2 units. having a unit that can playback a movie (MPeg2 file) with audio, that matches within the same format as the DL2 unit would be nice and useful.

    keith
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited February 2007
    I agree Frank!

    Support for .mov in AXON & DL.2 would save LOADS of time converting content into both .mov and MPEG-2.

    I still think we need another fixture profile to handle all of the thngs we have been talking about here.

    Something like this:

    AXON Server (patched in place of DL.2 Motion)
    DMX Channel ## - Function

    1 - Audio input source:
    - Internal file (accessed as any other folder/file on a layer)
    - External input (accessed as folder value = 254 / file value = >1 to a layer; the same as with Video-In via fodler 255)
    - DVD drive (accessed via folder 254 / file value = >1 to a layer; the same as with Video-In via folder 255)

    2 - Audio output volume control

    3 - Video input source - DVD drive or S-video (acessed by folder 255 to a layer as normal)

    4 - RS232 device #1-- Channel behavior would need to be set up within AXON Possibly via CMA? or maybe a separate config applet launched from the blue AXON startup screen?

    5 - RS232 device #2
    6 - RS232 device #3
    7 - RS232 device #4

    Thoughts?:friday:
  • SBlairSBlair Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited February 2007
    Wow guys! Lots of great and creative discussion here. We do have plans for adding some very basic audio output support on the roadmap for Axon.

    It would likely be along the lines of summing the audio together from the different graphics layers. If there is audio information in the MPEG2 file the it would summed together and output. I'm trying to keep the initial implementation simple so that we can get it out there and can then expand as needed in the future.

    Enhancement #9463 is logged for the basic Audio Output implementation.

    In addition, as mentioned .mov support is unlikely to happen anytime soon but we do have the request logged as #8355. I know it would be very useful and it is something I'm hoping we'll be able to get to do.

    Playing from a DVD sounds interesting. I'm not sure how well it would work though. There would need to be some type of navigation system for selecting the track to play and so forth. There is also the cueing issue as it would be far from instantaneous response that everyone is used to with harddrive-based media. Ever notice how long it takes your DVD player at home to start playing the movie?
  • Kris.gKris.g Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Personally when it comes to being handed a DVD full of content for a show I've always just riped it on to my computer and then added it to the content on my catalyst.

    I know it is a slightly long and lenghty process....... But I feel I get the best results that way. I think this would be best for the Axon as well rather than straight DVD player.

    However some sort of application where we can do this on the Catalyst/Axon with out having touse 3rd party software would be an advantage.

    Kris.
  • SBlairSBlair Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited February 2007
    Kris,

    You can currently copy content off a DVD data disc and onto the Axon using the onboard CMA.

    However it won't rip the content off a playable DVD as you suggest. That's not a feature that we will likely be able to add due to all the content protection legal issues that would surround that. There were companies that made software products such as DVD XCopy that got sued into oblivion as a result.
  • Kris.gKris.g Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Yeah, that makes a lot of sence Scott....... Hadn;t really thought about that.

    Good thing some of us have our heads screwed on I guess.

    And we all like High End and don;t want you getting sued.

    3rd party, thats the way to go guys :)

    Kris.
  • SBlairSBlair Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited February 2007
    Yes, Lawsuits are no fun at all!
  • Kris.gKris.g Registered User
    edited February 2007
    I wouldn't know :P

    (hoping it stays that way :))
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2007
    FYI the TMPEG Xpress software recommended by HES is capable of ripping playable DVD content.;)

    The nice thing about this is that you can then apply your content optimization filters before encoding as MPEG-2 file:headbang:
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2007
    SBlair wrote:
    Playing from a DVD sounds interesting. I'm not sure how well it would work though. There would need to be some type of navigation system for selecting the track to play and so forth. There is also the cueing issue as it would be far from instantaneous response that everyone is used to with harddrive-based media. Ever notice how long it takes your DVD player at home to start playing the movie?

    Didn't think hard enough about that...I guess we would need an extra DMX channel for DVD playback controls then.

    I've found it useful for last mintue accomodations where there is no time to rip content from a DVD and then load to server(s).
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited March 2007
    and of course if you load a dvd movie, and pause it,
    it will pretty much start right away, not compared to a hard drive, but close enought for some shows....
    and with collage, we mostly should be putting pauses in anyways...
    although I guess if you were using dvd's and were doing a collage, you would have to have multiple copys of the dvd... but that may not be too big of a deal...

    But I like the idea, its sounds very helpful for those quick and dirty style of shows... Sometimes it would be nice to not have to rip a client supplied dvd, and be able to use it "as-is"
    Perhaps we could use the exhisting layer controls for the dvd,
    folder 254, then file 0-254 for controlling the track...
    And of course, if we could output the Dvd audio that would be great,
    I would take it even without a volume control for that...
    Thats what the noise boys are for...

    Of course, thats just my .02
    Joshua Wood
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Woodj32177 wrote:
    an
    although I guess if you were using dvd's and were doing a collage, you would have to have multiple copys of the dvd...

    Not if you're sending singal out though a mixer/switcher (like D-TEK) or VDA ;)
  • Woodj32177Woodj32177 Registered User
    edited March 2007
    True,
    I guess if I were doing collage in that case, I would use the Svideo input, instead of the internal DVD drive in the axons...
    But then I wouldn't be able to control the drive via dmx....

    Joshua Wood
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2007
    I was thinking more along the lines of sending DVD signal from AXON out to DL.2s doing collage.
  • Kris.gKris.g Registered User
    edited March 2007
    I was just thinking as well.........
    If the DVD payer function was added to the Axons, how do we then add it to the DL.2's with them having no disk drive.

    And I don't see the signal being sent to them through ethernet fron the CMA live :s

    However Marty's right about the Axon having it and sending it to the Dl.2's

    Just means more kit for some of us.

    And also the DL.2's and Axon losing there closness of them being the same product.

    Kris.
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Well Axon and DL.2 are already different in that DL.2 has "Motion".

    What we're talking about here is a new fixture type that would be unique to Axon as Motion is to DL.2

    The addition of Audio and such would all be handled in a separate "fixture"

    Personally I think Axon is the best way to go @ FoH anyway with a DL.2 rig....not only do I have preview for "blind" programming, but CMA as well. This frees up my laptop for other tasks (like content creation and adjustments or pre-vis).:cool:
  • SBlairSBlair Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2007
    This frees up my laptop for other tasks (like content creation and adjustments or pre-vis).

    Or surfing the forums? :)
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2007
    ;) ...yep that too!:beerchug:
  • stephenwykerstephenwyker Registered User, DL Beta, Hog Beta
    edited June 2011
    Did this ever come to be? Today would have been great to sync a huge DL.3 / axon collage rig I ran. Instead I ran it from QLAB triggered via MIDI ..
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