Vector Orange v.s. Hog IPC

PatrickPatrick Registered User
Hi all,

We are a small company and are looking for a new console. :headbang:

At the moment we are operating on a Strand 520.:mad:

Our company has at the moment 8 High End Studio Spots and 12 Mac 700 colour washes and about 6 x 24 Channel Dimmer packs with conventional lights. And we are still expanding. :09:


We had a few months ago a demo on a compulite Vector Orange. :o

And now we have been offered to try a Hog IPC. :hogsign:

Now the big question. :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

Which choice to make. Why should we choose the Hog IPC. :1zhelp: :1zhelp: :1zhelp:

Any up for the challenge to give us the pro’s and con’s ? :Eyecrazy: :Eyecrazy: :Eyecrazy:

Vector Orange v.s. Hog IPC :poke:


Patrick :cool:

Comments

  • leebotleebot Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2006
    I would deffinatly try the IPC. One of the things you will notice is the real world values for pan/tilt,strobe,gobo rotation and chase speeds. Both are running on Windows XP embedded. The Hog does give you one more touchscreen. I personally find that most of the time you can use the 2 touchscreens provided and not have to carry another monitor. Aside from all the little programming differences the one thing that always brings me back to High End is the customer support and the user forum. I have called High End while out on a show in Iceland at Austin TX time was about 4am and recieved a phone call from a knowledgeable cheerful and willing technician within 15 min. True show emergencies are always handled as that Emergencys. Non time crittical stuff and user questions can be posted here and will always be replied in a timely mannor usually by High End staff or some very knowledagble users who take the time to share thier knowledge. The choice is yours try them both see what works for you, but for me High End is where I am spending my money.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2006
    The best judge is you, tests the IPC and makes your own idea. After come back to the forum to discuss and ask questions with the users and the developers who will have a joy of answering you

    Goog test
    Steph
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited December 2006
    I've used compulite boards since before I used Hogs.
    In fact, I skipped the hog 2 because of other consoles I prefered.
    Now I use Hog 3 and do so 50% of the time.
    The single thing that sells a Hog 3 over a Vector is that Vector is a new console that does what Hog 3 does already (mostly). Vector is new and rough and Hog 3 has been refined to do what the users want it to.
    Hog 3 is getting to be more reilable than it has ever been.
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2006
    I work as an operator/programmer in a 850 seat theatre and we have a Compulite Red and Green consoles.
    If I could decide, I would change to Hog immediately. I cannot think any feature, which would make Compulite better...
    I guess the pro's and con's are on the hardware side, but Hog software is unbeatable...hmmm I'm starting to sound like a fanboy :) Vectors are a bit like mixture of Compulite, GMA and Hog2, but the user interface and ease of use is pretty awful.

    Main difference for me in Hog3 software has always been the abstraction layer. It is a wonderful thing with real world values and dividing the fixture channels to easily used buttons, like it does with gobo index and rotate mode.

    When I look the Hog consoles they are saying "Hey, let's do lights, it'll be fun" and Compus are the opposite...
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited December 2006
    Patrick,

    Let me preface this by saying that I have almost no experience on the Compulite Vector, so I can't give you much of a direct comparison. I can, however, give you a good overview of some of the advantages we offer over other consoles on the market. I do work for High End Systems, so my opinion is a bit biased, but I was a freelance programmer / designer and a Wholeheog 3 owner before I began working here and I'm a strong advocate of the Wholehog 3.

    Here are some of the big advantages that the Wholehog 3 operating system offers:

    1) Abstract fixture model that uses real-world values

    We have an abstract fixture model that uses real-world values for parameters. This offers a few big advantages. First, you are no longer dialing parameters using 0-255 or 0-65535 values. You control fixtures using values that make sense to designers and programmers. Pan and tilt are in degrees, gobo indexing is in degrees, gobo rotation and wheel rotation are in rpm, strobing is in Hz, etc. In addition to making more sense to users, this also makes it much easier to control multiple fixtures of different types. On most consoles, if you select multiple lights that have different pan and tilt ranges, when you adjust pan and tilt they don't move together. On the Wholehog 3, when you adjust pan to -90°, all of the fixtures in your current selection pan 90 degrees to the left.

    Our abstract fixture model also allows us to present parameters in a way that makes sense and is consistent, even if the DMX protocols for the lights are laid out poorly. Strobe is a good example of this. Rather than having to dial a wheel to find the strobe mode that you're looking for (random, ramp/snap, etc.), these modes are shown on the encoders toolbar for the strobe wheel and all you have to do is tap the toolbar to select the mode you want and dial the encoder to set the speed. There are some manufacturers that put fixture control functions on the strobe channel. On the Wholehog 3, you are never going to dial your strobe rate too high and accidentally shutdown your fixtures. Control parameters only appear on the control menu of the slots toolbar, regardless of where they are within the DMX protocol.

    When we record cues and palettes, we store these real world values. This allows us to give users the ability to change the fixture type for fixtures that are already programmed in shows and maintain the existing programming. We handle changing type better than most consoles, because rather than using raw DMX for our comparisons we use these real world values. While some consoles would just look at the strobe channel being at DMX value 145 (which is unlikely to be consistent between fixtures), we look for the random strobe at 8 Hz that is programmed into the cue.

    2) Live control of fixtures

    One of the concepts behind the operation of the Wholehog 3 is that we want users to be able to efficiently control large rigs of fixtures without having to spend lots of time looking for information in the output window. The main syntax tool for this is the live key. One of the uses of live is that it allows you to select fixtures based on the palette they are currently in by pressing Live and then the palette. If your designer tells you to select all of the lights in blue and change them to green, you press Live [Blue Palette] to make your fixture selection and then press [Green Palette] to change the colour. You don't have to do any searching or counting to figure out which fixtures you need. There are also great tools for making relative adjustments to parameters without knowing the current value. If your designer tells you to drop all of the lights on the drummer by 20%, you press Live [Drummer Palette] @ -20 Enter. You don't have to know which lights they are or what their current level is.

    We also offer the ability to perform edits in the current editor using timing. This makes it much easier to sneak in changes to fixtures that are currently live on stage.

    3) Intuitive user interface and powerful syntax model

    The Wholehog 3 user interface is very intuitive and easy to learn. We also realize that many programmers are most efficient when they aren't digging through menus on the screens, so we offer key commands for many of the things that can be accomplished on screen. Our syntax model is very powerful, but it's also very consistent. The command structure that you use when working with colour palettes is the same structure that you would use when working with cuelists or cues or pages.

    4) Networking and distributed processing

    The networked environment of the Wholehog 3 offers 2 main advantages, scalability and Connectivity.

    The Wholehog 3 Console does not have any DMX outputs. DMX is generated by the DP2000 network appliance. The DP2000 has an internal processor and memory that handle the processing of crossfades and the conversion from real-world values to DMX values. When you add a DP2000 to your network you are adding 4 universes of DMX and the processing power to handle those 4 universes. This means that your console doesn’t slow down as your shows get larger. The Wholehog 3 is capable of running shows with more than 8000 fixtures.

    Large networks with multiple consoles, DMX processors< MIDI / Timecode processors, and wireless focus remotes can be built. Devices can be placed where they are needed and do not need to be located near each other.

    Show files are compatible between all products running the Wholeheog 3 operating system. A show file created using Hog 3PC on a computer can be run from a Wholehog 3 console or Hog iPC and vice-versa.

    5) Outstanding documentation and support

    The Wholehog 3 user manual is available in printed form, PDF, and on-line help. Our on-line help system on the console is context-sensitive, so when you are in the fixture window and you press the help key the console will bring up help for patching fixtures.

    As mentioned above, we offer worldwide support 24 hours a day, every day of the year. Our support people are always available to answer questions or help with problems.


    Here are some specific highlights of the Hog iPC console:

    1) The Hog iPC comes in it's own road case and is ready to plug in and program straight out of the box. It has 4 DMX outputs on-board, MIDI In / Out / Thru connections, and SMPTE input.

    2) The Hog iPC's 4 universes of DMX can be expanded using either single universe USB DMX widgets, 4 universe USB SuperWidgets, or DP2000 DMX Processors that provide 4 additional universes and connect via Ethernet.

    3) The Hog iPC can run either Wholehog 2 OS or Wholehog 3 OS.

    4) The Hog iPC has 10 playback faders and can be expanded to a maximum of 90 playbacks using our playback mini-wings or full-sized expansion wings.


    I hope this helps to answer some of the questions you may have. Feel free to ask about anything I didn't mention here.

    In case I forgot to mention this above, I'd have to suggest that you choose the Hog iPC as your new console. :)

    Thanks.
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Coming from someone who's used everything:
    Animators, Sparks, Sabres, and played with Vectors
    Grand MA
    Case and Maxxyz
    Vista
    Perl, Sapphire, and Diamond 1, 2, and 3
    I can tell you specific reasons I use each type on different shows.
    Ultimately though one thing sells me on the Hog. That is the command line. Yes I wish the Hog did quite a few of the features that the Maxxyz and Grand MA did but for some reason, I still turn out a show faster on a Hog. ...and I'm the guy who rejected hog 2 for so many years.

    I can even show reasons why Hog3 PC and a single touch screen is more cost effective and more effective overall than any other sw based lighting controller.

    I would assume pick a Hog 3 over an iPC but that's because I would die if I didn't have the intensity wheel or the rate wheel. Pound for pound, on a one or two universe show, you'll see nothing different at all. On a bigger show, a DP on an iPC is like a DP on a Hog3
  • LightingGuruLightingGuru Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Hi Patrick,

    I work for a corporate AV company in Toronto and we have owned two Compulite Vector Blue consoles for over a year now.

    I looked at the Hog IPC when we were console shopping but I have not used one on a show yet. The one feature that the IPC lacked at the time was that it could not support a wireless remote control. This is an important feature for me as I find myself focusing moving lights on myself standing on stage or conventional fixtures form a lift without the extra person available to run the desk for me.

    Some features that I like on the Vector are:
    - Vector supports the ability to download thumbnails via Ethernet from the Catalyst to the console.
    - Different modes for the playback faders, including rate for each playback and direct control of channel intensities.
    - Networking a laptop computer or another console as a tracking backup.
    - Having 5 Encoder wheels and a trackball.
    - Undo/Redo, Cut/Copy and Paste buttons.
    - Expanding the DMX outs using Ethernet based E-Port (Compulite) or ArtNet nodes.
    - 10 playback faders plus 10 Q-Keys (playbacks without faders)
    - A B cossfader and a large GO button.
    - Ethernet based Playback Wings with 10 playbacks and 10 Q-keys.
    - Windows PDA based remote control.

    I believe that you can use an external touch screen monitor. But having two on the Blue Vector I use just regular VGA LCD screens.

    I am assuming that your company is in the US because finding programmers who are familiar with the Hog platform will be much easier than the Vector. But I find that most Hog programmers adapt to the Vector quickly.

    You can download a video tutorial from the Compulite web site.

    I would try both consoles on shows before making your final decision and good luck!

    Paul
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited January 2007
    LightingGuru said:

    Some features that I like on the Vector are:
    - Vector supports the ability to download thumbnails via Ethernet from the Catalyst to the console.
    Well, sometimes with Hippotizer it doesn't work very well... it doesn't have reconnect. If you add media the new thumbs are not showing. You have to go to the patch and make "fake" adjusment to be able to save the patch and reload thumbs...or show must be reloaded. Though, I'm not sure how well it works with Catalyst. With Hippo thumbs are transfered via basic Windows file sharing.
    LightingGuru said:

    - Networking a laptop computer or another console as a tracking backup.
    But, multiuser is missing...
    LightingGuru said:

    - Undo/Redo, Cut/Copy and Paste buttons.
    Though, I think Spot # Copy Spot # Paste is a bit inconvenient syntax and also Cut and Paste when moving palettes compared to Hog X Copy Y or X Move Y
  • PatrickPatrick Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Ladies and Gentlemen .................we’ve got him

    We’ve decided to go for the HOG IPC

    Even better we have already ordered the hog

    It hasn’t arrived yet but I expect it in a week or two

    I just want to thank everyone you took the time and effort to give us advise.


    Everyone THX



    Patrick Camu

    TAO Events

    The Netherlands
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited January 2007
    Good Choice,
    Let us know what you think about it.

    Steph
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited January 2007
    That's great news. Thanks for the update.
    Please let us know if you need any help as you get acquainted with the console.

    Thanks.
Sign In or Register to comment.