track Backwards

stephlightstephlight Registered User
Track Backwards is wonderfull feature but perhaps we could have a track Backwards toobars to select IPCBET we want to track Backwards and a button if I@0% could be great too.
If button I@0% is selected parameter values wil be assigned to the last cue (or cue after if possible?) they appeared if intensity of the fixture is 0%.
It could be a good way to prepare position, color and beam for next cues.

What do you think about that?
steph

Comments

  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited December 2006
    Steph,

    I don't believe that we currently have space on the record toolbars to have options to individually track parameter groups backwards. If you want to accomplish this, I would suggest recording in 2 steps using command line masking or record toolbar masking to select which parameter groups you want to work with.

    Can you explain a bit more about your intensity @ 0 request?
    Are you saying that you want to only track backwards if intensity is at 0%?

    Thanks.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited December 2006
    YES! Exactly that
    I become good in explanations :cool:
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2006
    Hmm... Steph, I don't quite get the idea of this, but it would be nice if you could explain this a bit more.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited December 2006
    a traked bakward parameter when intensity is à 0% would be a sorte ok mark cue.
    for exemple, i have one fixture in cues 1 thru 5 with this values

    cue 1 100% pos1 red nogobo

    Cue 2 100% pso2

    cue 3 000%

    cue 4 000%

    cue 5 100% pos3 NC gobo5

    If I had recorded the cue 4 with the option track Backwards if I@o values would be:

    cue 1 100% pos1 red nogobo

    Cue 2 100% pso2

    cue 3 000%

    cue 4 000% pos3 NC gobo5

    cue 5 100%

    Is it more clear?

    steph
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2006
    I see and understand what you are looking for...though this can make the logic of tracking bit difficult. In normal tracking situations when using backward tracking the result would be...

    cue 1 100% pos1 NC gobo5

    Cue 2 100% pos3 NC gobo5

    cue 3 000% pos3 NC gobo5

    cue 4 000% pos3 NC gobo5 (recorded cue)

    cue 5 100% pos3 NC gobo5

    Though I might be totally wrong... I didn't check this with console.

    But, I think it would be nice to mask what parameters you want to track forward and backward.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited December 2006
    I agree with you for what relates to the masks for the tacking forward and backward, we could have a toolbar on top of the record-toolbar like the one for Path, it is what I had writen in the first post of this thread.

    I did not think to put color for traked values, i have to sleep some time(s)

    Example with 2 cues @ 0% before recorded cue:

    cue 1 100% pos1 Red NoGobo

    Cue 2 100% pos2 Red NoGobo

    cue 3 000% pos2 Red NoGobo

    cue 4 000% pos3 NC gobo5 (tracked backward values)

    cue 5 100% pos3 NC gobo5 (recorded cue)

    Example with 1 cue @ 0% before recorded cue:

    cue 1 100% pos1 Red NoGobo

    Cue 2 100% pos2 Red NoGobo

    cue 3 000% pos3 NC gobo5 (tracked backward values)

    cue 4 100% pos3 NC gobo5 (recorded cue)

    Is that more clear?
    steph
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited December 2006
    Steph,

    I understand what you're asking for and I see how it could be useful, but it seems like it might cause some trouble in cases where you don't have multiple cues with intensity @ 0% before your current cue.

    Your second example above shows this problem. Since the cue with intensity at 0% that you are tracking back to is the cue where intensity is fading out, you are going to see the lights change position and gobo as they fade out from their previous look. I don't think that this wouldn't make much sense.

    Let me know what you think.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Of course we must think about timing (like most of time) before recording the cue (or modify it after) and put time at 0 with a delay or an End path to the tracked backward values.

    Or if it's possible (dream start here) make an option to
    automatically add, for all tracked backward values, End path or 0s time with a delay equal at the fade out time of the cue where intensity goes to 0%.:D
    (stop dreaming here)

    Sometime dreaming make big things and chrismas is not so far.

    But sometimes ideas are good but réalitée can often proven more constraining.

    Or perhaps if there is no multiple cues with intensity @ 0% before current cue the I@0 option could create a point cue juste before the recorded cue.





  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2006
    Hmm...I understand Steps point of view... I have discussed also about that auto delay function in some thread. I guess it was in some mark cue discussion... cause I have many times been in situations where it would be nice to have somekind of auto delay for outgoing fixtures.
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited December 2006
    I completely agree with the legitimacy of this thread.
    Steph, I give ya props... :notworthy:
    A different consideration here would be a new kind of cue.
    On the record toolbar, make the "more" buttom step through 3 levels instead of two first of all just because I can anticipate other cues.
    Second, create what I would call an "Intensity Forward" cue.
    Example:

    Cue 1: 100% pos1 col1 beam3
    Cue 2: 0% pos2 col3

    Cue 3: 100% pos1 col3


    Where pressing "Intensity Forward" would create a new cue and remove intensity from the group filtered fixtures in cue 3.

    Cue 1: 100% pos1 col1 beam3
    Cue 2: 0% pos2 col3

    Cue 3: ---- pos1 col3
    (all but grp1 still at 100%)
    Cue 4: 100% ---- ----
    (grp1 is only grp in this cue)

    Basically this is what I do manually whenever I create "Mark Cues" and a push button like this would expidite it.

    The reason I say we need a new toolbar for this is because timing will also be a factor. For example if I want Timing to push forward as well. For instance in cue 3, since intensity is zero, then all transitions can be zero (or as fast as noise and visible distraction allows). Therefore is I spend my time setting elaborate delay and fade times, I can push them forward into cue 4 where I would actually want them.

    Not to say I don't like mark cues but why everyone focuses on H2 used to do, I prefer to thing of what we all probably do now.
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited December 2006
    It sounds to me like we're trying to turn Track Backwards into a tool for auto-marking. I think it would be much more logical to address mark cues and move-in-black functionality as a separate issue and specify the needs or tools for it separately. I think that trying to handle these needs within the context of track backwards is probably going to add more complexity than is necessary.

    Once again, this is just my 2 cents. Feel free to disagree.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited December 2006
    I'm totaly agree with the idea that having mark cues and move-in-black functionality could be better, perhaps more logical and finaly will join this idea.

    That was just an other way to do that, as lot of options on Hog3 have many ways to be used. And more there is way more the number of people which can use it is large

    steph
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited December 2006
    I think a very powerful tool to add into functionality would be parameter shifting. I know this is off topic but Inspired by the point about different tools for different things.

    Imagine being able to enter into a cue in a cuelist, touching a cell (or group of cells) and shifting the contents of those selected cells backwards or forwards in the cuelist. Perhaps even being intelligent where a user could select a cue range and the shift function would create a new pre-cue or post-cue or present user options to merge the offset in the direction of the shift.

    I am thinking this from abundant use of Catalyst where I build a look in a cue. Imagine being able to build the whole look in cue 1, cue 2, cue 3 and then being able to shift the loading parameters independent of playback parameters or intensity for an entire list.

    This would be so much easier to just build the final look for each layer in staggered layers and then use the cuelist "offset shift" feature to move intensity down a cue in the whole list. The same with pre and post scaling or positioning.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited December 2006
    It could be really good , and fantastic with mask, maintain position key when touching a cell and shifting the contents would only shift position parameters values and if fixtures ares selected in an editor this would only shift position parameters values for this fixtures.

    Other point would be great is to drag and drop cues in a cuelist. drag and drop a cue in a cuelist would move it, maintain Copy key when drag and drop a cue in a cuelist would copy it.

    This could be also done for evry buttons in evry directory, fixtures (to change order) and values in éditors.

    steph
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited December 2006
    Todd,

    I see 2 possibilities here:

    1) Command line syntax for moving parameters between cues:
    Cue 10 Fixture 1 Thru 5 Position Colour Move Cue 11 Enter
    (currently being tracked in enhancement #9396)

    2) Implement a tracksheet and provide an easy way to move data between cues within the tracksheet.
    (currently logged as enhancement #6014)

    I can see how it would be very useful to do this, but I think a tracksheet would provide a much more logical gui for doing this than the cue editor does.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited December 2006
    i saw that drag and dop is logged it as item #9282 :D :hogsign: so that could be few more drag and dop options :headbang:;)

    Ps i also think that tracksheet would be better.
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Tom, both of those enhancements are nice. I am talking about something simpler but much more powerful.

    Imagine a cuelist stack as a spreadsheet where the rows are cues and the collumns are parameters. I am talking about a tool that would shift a cell up or down and thereby shifting all coresponding cells up or down in that column.
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited December 2006
    Todd,

    This is where I think that a tracksheet could be most powerful. A tracksheet allows you to view parameter data across cues. Imagine a spreadsheet where the rows are the cues within a cuelist and the columns are either the parameters (when looking at a single fixture) or the fixtures (when looking at a single parameter). With a display like this, it would be easy to see where hard values are being set and we could offer a way to easily move selected data between cues.
  • kmontagnekmontagne Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Tom. I think that is a great idea. I would love to see that as a new feature. It would really help on those complicated structured cuelists. You should be able to see the real world values as well as palletes, etc. like the other views.

    --
    Kevin Montagne
    kevin (at) litkam (dot) com
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