Effect chase

KyleT85KyleT85 Registered User
Ok, i read the manual and i got alot of information out of it,
Now, there is an effect i cant seem to get the grasp of.

I want to do a light chase, 1 to 6 on the back bar.
and then alternating, IE: 2 to 6 to 4 to 2 to 5 to 1
or 2 and 6 and 4 and 3 and 5 and 1

thanks,

Comments

  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited November 2006
    Kyle,

    Here's how you would build a light chase for 6 lights (numbered 1 through 6):

    1) 1 Thru 6 @ 0 Enter (to select the lights and set intensity at 0%)
    2) Double-tap the Effect button to open the Effects Engine window.
    3) Click the Table cell in the Intensity row.
    4) Press Set and select the Step table from the drop-down list.
    5) Click the Offset cell in the Intensity row.
    6) Press set and type 0 Thru 300 Enter.

    The offset controls where in the waveform each channel will start the effect. Offset is expressed in degrees (0 through 360). By typing 0 Thru 300, you are fanning the offset so that each channel is assigned its own offset value. Determining the offset for 6 fixtures is easy because 6 divides evenly into 360. The offsets assigned are 0, 60, 120, 180, 240, and 300.

    You should now see that all of the lights are chasing in order, but because the Step table is on half of the time and off the other half, you will notice that you have 3 lights on and 3 lights off at all times. If you want only a single light chasing you will need to reduce the length of the effect cycle.

    7) Click the Length cell in the Intensity row.
    8) Press Set and change the length from 100% to 33%.

    This should create the first 6 light chase you're looking for.

    If you want to create an alternating chase from this, you have 2 options.

    First, you could select the lights in the order you want them to chase and then repeat steps 5 and 6 above to re-calculate the offsets based on the new selection order.

    Your other option is to use cloning to copy the effect to the same set of fixtures in a different selection order:

    1 Thru 6 Copy 2 + 6 + 4 + 3 + 1 Enter

    Creating your last chase, with 2 lights on at a time, will require a few changes. Let's assume the three steps of your chase will look like this:

    1 2 3 4 5 6
    X - - - - X
    - X - - X -
    - - X X - -

    Since each pair of lights will need the same offset, I would build the effect with 3 fixtures and copy it to the other 3.

    1) 1 Thru 3 @ 0 Enter (to select the lights and set intensity at 0%)
    2) Double-tap the Effect button to open the Effects Engine window.
    3) Click the Table cell in the Intensity row.
    4) Press Set and select the Step table from the drop-down list.
    5) Click the Offset cell in the Intensity row.
    6) Press set and type 0 Thru 240 Enter.
    7) Click the Length cell in the Intensity row.
    8) Press Set and change the length from 100% to 67%.
    9) 1 Thru 3 Copy 6 Thru 4 Enter

    This should give you the effect you're looking for.

    Please let me know if this doesn't make sense or if there is any other help that I can offer.

    Thanks.
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Tom! I love you! That was almost as meticulous and mathematical as I would do. haha I even love the way you used the little txt diagram convention I've done in the past.
    I suppose I could be flattered but I could also be concieted.
    It kinda makes me feel a little sad when I offer my quick and dirty alternative which is:

    Grab all six fixtures, pick step from the FX menu, dial in the desired FX length, and then spin the offset wheel holding fan with "fan from center" selected.
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited December 2006
    Todd,

    When I'm building an effect with "steps" like this, I will generally either enter offsets directly or use in-place fanning within spreadsheet cells. These options allow me to ensure that my offsets are exactly where I want them. There are times, especially when working with large numbers of fixtures or odd selection orders, when it can be tough to tell what your offsets are when fanning using encoders if you're not staring at the offset view of an editor window. I also wanted to make sure that Kyle understood the math behind the offset, rather than giving the "just fan it 'til it looks right" suggestion.

    With regards to my ascii diagram, I often find that visuals like this help with understanding the effects engine in a few ways. First, it takes the numbers that we're talking about in the engine window and relates them to something that's happening on stage. Second, if you can diagram the effect that you want to build, it can make it much easier to see the steps or parameters you will need to use.

    As much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news, I don't think you get all of the credit for pioneering the use of ascii art in posts.:cop:
     
     
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  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited December 2006
    teerickson wrote:
    When I'm building an effect with "steps" like this, I will generally either enter offsets directly or use in-place fanning within spreadsheet cells. These options allow me to ensure that my offsets are exactly where I want them.

    I agree Tom,

    I do this all the time too. The quick easy method is to take 360 divided by the ## of fixtures to let you know how far apart the offsets should be.

    So for six fixtures the offset spread is 60 giving you offsets of 0/60/120/180/240/300....360 is essentially the same as zero

    Love the text-art BTW:hogsign:
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Well Tom,
    You're right. If I actually thought I was original using asscii art for posts then I would really be a conceited lighting guy wouldn't I.:headbang:

    As far as the mathematics of offsets, I had a thought for an addition to the inboard help.

    Perhaps touching help and fx would bring up a reference page that shows offset multiples for fixture counts. I've got a good memory for offsets but with a table for reference, it makes things nice.

    In addition maybe publishing an FX generator addendum manual that explains the concepts behind using FX. I have several workshop lessons I give on this and I would be willing to help develop but coordinating the efforts would be nice.

    Why I'm at it, what are thoughts on expanding the stock FX pallets...
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited December 2006
    Todd,

    Rather than having help that shows offsets for different fixture counts, I've been thinking of a few ways to improve the GUI for this so that user's don't have to do the math if they don't want to.

    So far, I think the best option would be:

    When you have multiple fixtures selected and you select the offset cell in the effects engine spreadsheet and then press set, you would see a pop-up toolbar (like the cuelist wait column toolbar) that would give you three options: Degrees, Percent, and Spread.

    Degrees would be the option for our current behaviour, just as it is. All fixtures are assigned an offset of X degrees, and offsets can be fanned with an entry such as X>Y.

    Spread would equally fan offsets over 360 degrees based on the current selection order.

    Percent would allow you to spread over a portion of the effects cycle. 100% would be the same as spread.

    For example, if you have 6 fixtures selected, an offset of 100% would give you fixture offsets of 0, 60, 120, 180, 240, and 300. An offset of 50% would give you fixture offsets of 0, 30, 60, 90, 120, and 150.

    The spread and percent options would most likely just be used for calculating individual offsets in degrees which would be stored in cues, scenes, and palettes. I feel that this would make it much easier to edit the effects after the fact.

    How does that sound?
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited December 2006
    i love it.:07:49025-7_gif.gif
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited December 2006
    Steph,

    I've logged this request as enhancement #10276.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited December 2006
    perhaps we could have a way to do -60, -30, 0, 0, 30, 60 ?
  • aphylotusaphylotus Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Hello,

    perhaps a small windows which displays disc representing the 360° with small dots representing all the selected fixtures, which will then represent the degrees on this disc (a bit like the color wheel when you have multiple fixtures selected)
    Or not having a disc displaying it, but drawing the function as a continuous line (not a line, but the path it would walk having a 2D square, where Tilt=0, Pan=0 is in the center, -180 left or top, +180 bottom right. Then on this line these small dots could walk around.

    This idea is not new, it is done like that in the Martin LightJockey Software. There we also expanded the system to draw bezier lines which are then translated into -180 to 180 degrees, 2 dimensions.

    If You like this idea I can check, I have quite a lot of ideas still in mind from this project, so I may give some ideas how we solved this.

    Is best for pan/tilt, could be drawn also on a Hue/Saturation Chart.
    Added some screenshots.

    Tom
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited December 2006
    You know that other console company whos name I won't mention
    (begins with an A and ends with a VO)
    Their FX generator uses a fine and course offset.
    Having a drop down toolbar where the user could pick divisions of offset in a course adjustment would be nice. For example:
    1 = all fixtures are 360 degrees offset from each other
    2 = 180
    3 = 120
    4 = 90
    5 = 72
    6 = 60
    7 = 51
    8 = 45
    9 = 40
    10 = 36
    11 = 33
    12 = 30
    This, combined with an ability to overlay the degree offset would allow for users to create dynamic offsets as well.
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited December 2006
    Steph,

    Do you mean 60, 30, 0, 0, 30, 60 (like a center fan)?
    -60, -30, 0, 0, 30, 60 would produce a (somewhat odd, IMHO) non-symmetrical effect.

    If you know the numeric offsets that you want like this, you should be able to use multipart fanning directly in the offset cell with 60>0>60 syntax.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Hi, Tom
    60, 30, 0, 0, 30, 60 is the good answer :dunce:
    If you know the numeric offsets that you want like this, you should be able to use multipart fanning directly in the offset cell with 60>0>60 syntax

    This would be when we want to use your solution with something like a center fan. (I'm working with a designer that only want symmetricals effects)
    If we want to use Spread or Percent and we don't know what will be the numeric offsets to have one solution to do a center fan.
    At this time i see two options
    1) 180>0>180 or 50%>0%>50% for Spread or Percent value
    2) Spread and Percent take into account the fan option witch is actived.

    What do you think of that?
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited December 2006
    :17: Symetrical FX :17:
    Sorry you have to suffer like that Steph
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited December 2006
    thanks Todd 3_8_14.gif I am not the only one to suffer :D
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited December 2006
    One other easy way to type an offset for selected fixtures would be to take as starting point the way we select fixtures. We could type in offset cell or command line 0>enter or >0>enter as we not type last or first and last values console would calculate each offset values for each selected fixtures.
    for example with 1 thru 6 selected:
    0>enter would give fix1 offset 0 , fix2 offset 60, fix3 offset 120, fix4 offset 180, fix5 offset 240, and fix6 offset 300.
    >0>enter would give fix1 offset 60 , fix2 offset 30, fix3 offset 0, fix4 offset 0, fix5 offset 30, and fix6 offset 60.

    How does it sound?
    steph
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited December 2006
    Steph,

    I like your idea for 0 > Enter. I've logged this as enhancement #10325.

    I'm not entirely sure about your > 0 > syntax. I think it's a bit confusing and I'm not sure how you're arriving at the offsets you describe. I would have thought that this would still have spread the fixtures evenly across the 360 degree range and generated offsets of 240, 120, 0, 0, 120, 240. Wouldn't that be correct?

    Thanks.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited December 2006
    You are right, 240, 120, 0, 0, 120, 240. is the correct one

    iI wrote too quickly without reflecting
    I asked a new brain for christmas :D

    Thanks,
    steph
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited December 2006
    stephlight wrote:
    I asked a new brain for christmas :D

    The biggest Christmas present for the bug between the chair and the desk is often needed between the designer's cell phone and their laptop.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited December 2006
    111.gif:friday::dunce: :18:
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited March 2007
    teerickson wrote:
    When you have multiple fixtures selected and you select the offset cell in the effects engine spreadsheet and then press set, you would see a pop-up toolbar (like the cuelist wait column toolbar) that would give you three options: Degrees, Percent, and Spread.


    Regarding Enhancement 10276:

    I was thinking more about this, how about another category we would call offset.

    The Idea of Offset would work where the user would enter a number and that would be the number of fixtures between 0 and 360 degrees of offset that would be applied to the selection order.

    A further addition to this would be an offset with mirror (because I love Steph's symmetric designer so much haha). The idea would be to enter a value in the FX offset window where we use the "offset" function I am referring to and them perhaps a modifier like "-" that would mirror the fx.

    The syntax I would see is for example on a rig with 16 lights in a line, we want 4 helicopters so we grab p and t and enter a sin, in offset, we choose "offset" and type the following: 4-4
    The idea is that the first four would define the offset between fixtures and the - would indicate that there would be a mirror and the second 4 would be the number of fixtures before the mirroring flips.

    We implement this, and all of a sudden we have a matrix builder.
  • iatsesparky720iatsesparky720 Registered User
    edited January 2014
    Short and sweet. So I am a novice programmer I'm working with a Road Hog Full Boar. I need to program a chase effect using a total of ten fixtures. They're all LED's. On stage for uplighting I have 4 colour blaze 72" v.3's. On either off stage side I have 3 Coemar 6ch. Par Lite LED's. Client wants a chase starting at the furthest off-stage units respectively and traveling inwards to center... Will u help
  • Tnsquint1Tnsquint1 Registered User
    edited January 2014
    Greetings. This is actually fairly simple. The console will reference the order in which your fixtures are selected. Therefore, instead of selecting your Colour Blaze GROUP and then your Coemar GROUP, simply select your fixtures in the order I. Which you would like them to chase. For instance, if your Colour Blaze fixtures were channel number 1-4 and your Coemar fixtures were 11-16 then select the following:

    11, 12, 13, 1, 2, 3, 4, 14, 15, 16

    At that point any offset timing will apply to the fixtures in that order. You use the effects engine with offset "fanned" timing or a couple of cues that are following each other with delays. I often prefer the latter idea as I find I have much more detailed control over the chase.

    If this is something you find you will do a lot (and you will), save this selection order as a group. The console will recall that selection order everytime you select it. Keep in mind, if you edit a cue, you will have to reselect that group to maintain the correct selection order. Otherwise the console will not apply your timing updates in the correct order.

    I use this kind of thing all the time.
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