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How about an "AP"

Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
edited April 2007 in Wholehog 3 General Discussion
So we've got DPs...any thought of an ArtNet Processor?

Similar to a DP it could connect to the Hog-3 Network via switch and send multiple lines of ArtNet out...no need for all manner of 3rd party hardware converting DMX from the DP to ArtNet.

Comments

  • jankirchhoffjankirchhoff Registered User
    edited March 2006
    I've been told that the DP has its own processor and does calculate fades itself. This is why the hog3 can support this big amount of dmx-lines since this system scales very well. Hog3pc has its "virtual DP2000"-processes that do this job and send the data to the dmx-widget.
    If you'd have "dump" Artnet-Nodes, the desk would need to calculate the fades which is currently not implemented I think... And would probably be too much for the desk.

    Jan
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2006
    Well sure, pure ArtNet out of the desk would probably be a big load for it to handle.

    What I imagine is another rack mount unit similar to a DP, it could have its own processor as well, so the load is at the "AP" and the desk drives it similarly to a DP.

    It could even take the place of a DP if all you needed was ArtNet.

    Connect direct to the desk via crossover cable, or go right into a network switch along with your DPs.

    You're just changing the output protocol right?:confused:

    This way when you've got a bunch of ArtNet lines on a show you dont' have to eat up DMX space from DPs.
  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2006
    :beerchug: Marty,

    Please be sure to visit the HES booth at PLASA and LDI this year as I will be able to answer your question better there...
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2006
    Nice one!! Thanks Brad!:headbang:
  • CRBatchelorCRBatchelor Registered User
    edited March 2006
    Looks like we might be seeing some new products coming out! :-D
  • bellonsbellons Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited March 2006
    What about being able to connect directly to a PathPort Network without necessarely using DPs. Do we have to expect PathPort connectivity implementation to be released soon or do we still have a long path to walk? Marco
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2006
    If I understand the Path-Way specs properly:confused:

    You need dedicated hardware at either end to put signal in and spit DMX out at the other end. You also need a separate manager to route the signals.

    While you can do some of the same things with ArtNet, you can also use it directly to control things like Catalyst and large LED systems without having to convert to DMX at the other end.

    The ArtNet signals plug directly in via Ethernet w/ no conversion to DMX.

    So having a box that outputs ArtNet directly into your media servers via Ethernet cable will be very useful indeed!

    I don't think the same can be done w/ Path Port:33:

    Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this though, b/c I have only had limited exposure to Path Port, and I've done much more with ArtNet.
  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited March 2006
    An important item to remember is that artnet and pathport (as well as most other similar protocols) just transport DMX values, they do not create them. The Wholehog 3 system requires a DP to process and create the DMX output, so you will not see direct output of Artnet, Pathport, etc from the Ethernet port on the back of the Wholehog 3 console. However do not let that discourage you as the scalable design principles of the Wholehog 3 platform allow us to provide great flexibility in terms of options and features.

    I know this is all vague right now, but trust me that it will all become clearer later this year.

    thanks,
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited March 2006
    Brad is of course completely correct!!:)

    And this is why I'm looking forward to a 19" rackmountable box that sends out ArtNet lines!! (Probably will look similar like a DP, but with Cat5 connectors on the front.:love: :love: :love: am I right??)

    My point about Catalyst, as well as some other media servers, is that they can accept ArtNet directly through their network card, the signal is DMX, but the hardware doesn't need to be converted. No nee to go through the CIB in the case of Catalyst.:headbang:
  • GOGOGOGO Registered User
    edited May 2006
    Brad,

    i know your point of view about timelines...
    but i am realy impatient and curios about the
    way, the artnet solution will go.

    so do we have to buy other products like artistic licence or
    should we wait for a nice hes/fps "thing".

    and if so: WHEN ??!!

    maybe you can tell us some features??

    so its just a simple question with a hopefully simple answer...


    robert gurk
  • rosswillrosswill Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited May 2006
    Just to add my bit can any new device please have Ethercon connectors and IEC retaining clips?

    Thanks Ross
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited May 2006
    I agree with Ross that these would both be helpful. :)
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited May 2006
    Ross & Marty,

    I've forwarded your request on to one of our engineers who has a role in our hardware design process.
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited January 2007
    I figured I'd dig up this old thread and find out where things are with this...

    b/c it would be really very helpful when using DL.2s to only have to run Cat5 and power to the fixtures and not have to also run DMX.;)
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited January 2007
    Marty,

    I can't reveal any details yet, but rest assured that some of our current development should put a smile on your face.

    Thanks.
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Awesome! I await with anxious anticipation:D
  • captnstewbngcaptnstewbng Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Can we get a DP that has the DMX connections on the back? I have the my DP mounted in a rack with a UPS/power conditioner as well as the base stations for our comm units. It would be a fabulous setup only if I didn't have DMX cables sticking out of the front.

    Kerry
  • ryanwilkinsonryanwilkinson Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Switch craft makes connectors that are 90 degree that you can swivel the angle of the cable. The only thing is they are a pain to solder and cost 20 bucks a piece. At least they lay flat though and are pretty solid.
  • ryanwilkinsonryanwilkinson Registered User
    edited February 2007
    So I just found something kind of interesting. I was reading a document from artistic license about artnet, and they have some OEM codes listed in it. They have assigned FPS for 2 numbers with a 2x dmx in and a 2x dmx out (no product.. just a TBD), and HES also has one, but the product and notes field both have a TBD in them..

    Sorry guys.. it was in a public document..

    Looking forward to some good stuff..
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited February 2007
    ryanwilkinson wrote:
    Switch craft makes connectors that are 90 degree that you can swivel the angle of the cable. The only thing is they are a pain to solder and cost 20 bucks a piece. At least they lay flat though and are pretty solid.

    The only problem with 90 deg. connectors is that when you put more than one DP in a rack next to one another, then you "block" the ports on the adjoining DP.

    I've gotten used to the ports being on the front. I actually find it easier to plug lines in the front than having to reach into the back of a dark rack with a flashlight in my teeth hoping I don't disconnect anything else in the process.

    What I would really like to see is an Ethercon port instead of a standard RJ connector on the DPs.
  • ryanwilkinsonryanwilkinson Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Well you can always put a blank space in between the units. I am very surprised that the ethercon is not used as much as I thought it would. Its just more practical for portable use where everything changes all the time and it is vibrated a lot.

    Ryan
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited February 2007
    yeah.....like touring ;) or any time you put a rack on a truck :drive:.

    Someone needs to come up with a switch that has Ethercons built into it....then I think we'll see it used more.
  • ahelgorahelgor Registered User
    edited February 2007
    the reason for dp not have ethercons?? -if i should guess, i would say that the dp was designed and spec'd before ethercon's days..
  • PryderiPryderi Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited February 2007
    Hi Marty,

    These are the Ethernet Switchers I am using

    http://www.luminex.be/products_details.php?cat=2&prod=0100016&display=description

    Ethercon Connectors on all Ports, Gigabit Switcher.

    I have it mounted in an 4u SKB Case, on top of 2 x DP - all delicate RJ45 safely hidden, while the input from the desk is via Ethercon.

    Cheers,

    P
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Sweet....I definitely need to get one of those!

    Anders...why then does the console have one, but not the DP?:dunno:
  • ahelgorahelgor Registered User
    edited February 2007
    lol.. mmm-good point.. maybe becouse i guessed wrong??
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited February 2007
    I wasn't around in the days the DP2000 was originally being designed, but my guess would be that in a typical system, you are likely to have a rack of DP2000s with a switch in the rack. Since the Ethernet cables aren't going to be plugged and unplugged frequently and they aren't going to be exposed to much stress, there isn't as much need for the rugged Ethercon connector on the back of the DP.
  • rosswillrosswill Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited February 2007
    Ah you see Tom in my world it’s a different story. Every 1-2 days a different show with a different setup - varying numbers of DP's in varying locations being plugged and unplugged frequently.

    Added to which my own personal annoyance is that for something which connects (albeit on occasion) directly to the console it has a different connector on it and therefore requires an adapter as most of my cables are rugged ethercon ones.

    Finally for the sake of a few extra dollars on a $5,000 + product my choice is to go with the most hardwearing components available.

    Regards,

    Ross
  • Kris.gKris.g Registered User
    edited February 2007
    ryanwilkinson wrote:
    So I just found something kind of interesting. I was reading a document from artistic license about artnet, and they have some OEM codes listed in it. They have assigned FPS for 2 numbers with a 2x dmx in and a 2x dmx out (no product.. just a TBD), and HES also has one, but the product and notes field both have a TBD in them..

    Sorry guys.. it was in a public document..

    Looking forward to some good stuff..


    The HES one will most likely be the DL2 remember.

    Rkis.
  • Kris.gKris.g Registered User
    edited February 2007
    rosswill wrote:
    Just to add my bit can any new device please have Ethercon connectors and IEC retaining clips?

    Thanks Ross


    Rather then using the IEC and Clips,
    Why not use the Powercon.
    Again that something I thought would really take off.
    Never really did.

    Kris.
  • rosswillrosswill Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited February 2007
    Can I request ArtNet input as well as output (obviously via the same connector), a good possible solution to getting dmx inputs back.

    Thanks Ross
  • Kris.gKris.g Registered User
    edited February 2007
    rosswill wrote:
    Can I request ArtNet input as well as output (obviously via the same connector), a good possible solution to getting dmx inputs back.

    Thanks Ross

    Yeah, this would be usefull for mee too.......
    If only using the Catalyst to drive LED I could have the catalyst at FOH with me and sent the Artnet down with the Hog stuff on the same line :)

    Kris.
  • GOGOGOGO Registered User
    edited April 2007
    brad, tom,

    any comments about the current status for hogIII/ artnet??

    it's a long time without any information refer this really
    important theme...


    regards

    robert gurk
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited April 2007
    Robert,

    I think it's safe for me to say at this point, given what Brad and I have already revealed, that we are currently working on an ArtNet solution for the Wholehog 3 family. I'm not quite ready to discuss specific features yet, but I will tell you that the project is progressing very well and I think everyone will be very pleased with the results.
  • barnes2000barnes2000 Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited April 2007
    Roadhog, Showgun, Artnet...when does the Everlasting Gobstopper come out?
  • jxgriffijxgriffi Registered User, DL Beta, Hog Beta
    edited April 2007
    The next time they are at LDI.....

    [running for the door before someone throws something at me....]
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited April 2007
    ooh, zinger.
    One point to Mr. Griffin.
    *throws something at him*

    And as much as I'd love to release a fixture called the Everlasting Gobstopper, It wouldn't be much fun when Nestle showed up at my door with a trademark infringement claim.
  • jxgriffijxgriffi Registered User, DL Beta, Hog Beta
    edited April 2007
    How about the Everlasting GOBOstopper then? Is that enough of a change?
  • eboxereboxer Registered User
    edited April 2007
    15 percent difference . . . thats all thats needed.
  • SourceChildSourceChild Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Hey Guys,
    what about a new DP2000 that doesn't go nuts when it's 75% full. :rolleyes:

    Maybe SDP-2000 "S" stands for super :p and it's got twice the processing power.

    Oh and since we're talking about Artnet, can the new Artnet processor be a larger capacity device (because we're not limitted to 4 universes on Artnet). Ideally 16 to 20 universes of DMX :D

    Of course this would mean it's time to release the Wholehog 4 (running the now (sorta) stable 2.1.1), the one with three 19" touchscreen built in and four banks of 6 faders under them, along with A matrix of push button instant cues, and plugs for 3 external monitors?
    :hogsign:
  • ahelgorahelgor Registered User
    edited April 2007
    do you honestly think they would underpower the new device?? i'm pretty shure it's not just the users that have been aware/annoyed by the initially underspecced DP also the developers;)..
  • teericksonteerickson Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited April 2007
    Todd,

    Whatever we choose to release as an ArtNet solution will certainly not be underpowered. I'd also be very surprised if you found that it didn't exceed your needs and expectations.

    Our current software version is v2.1.0. If you're having stability problems with this release, please provide us with the details using our standard bug reporting format.

    I think you underestimate the amount of time and effort that goes into specifying, designing, building, and writing software for a completely new console. There are also lots of other considerations, including what's best for our exising users. Rest assured that we are constantly looking at what's best for our products and our users. I hope that the Road Hog, our progress with software over the past months, and some of the things that will be coming have and will continue to be evidence of this.

    Thanks.
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