[DMX Processing) HES/Hog Widgets/DP's and sACN/Artnet

Buzz313thBuzz313th Registered User, Hog Beta
Can someone please confirm something for me....

During a conversation with a friend of mine who is also a console programmer, the topic of DMX processing power came up and we were at a slight disagreement, that will end up with one person buying numerous beers when the answer is found.

Questions..

1. Do the HES USB DMX widgets share any of the DMX processing load with the CPU of the console if no physical DP8000 is present on the Hognet.

2. Does a DP8000 on the Hognet process DMX data for a HES widget that is connected via the consoles USB port and patched to the DP on the hognet? Or, must the widget be plugged into the DP's USB port for the DP to process the DMX data?

3. Does the H4 Console contain an actual DP8000 that does all the DMX processing, or is it another Virtual DP where the DMX data is processed through the consoles CPU?

4. Does the FB4 only have a Virtual DP, or is there a partial DMX processor in there?

Thanks

;)

JB

Comments

  • kurtiswilkkurtiswilk Registered User
    edited December 2012
    From the best of my knowledge:

    1 - widgets do no processing on there own.
    2 - widgets plugged into consoles get processed by the physical console it is plugged into. If plugged into the usb on the dp8000, the dp will do the processing.

    3- Yes but not the rackmount. Think super widget in a hog 3 console but dp8000 style. (but not quite gannam style)
    4- no super widget pcb style.

    3 & 4 are the best guesses, i'd be willing to start a tab for beer on my answers.

    ;)
    Happy new year
    Kurtis
  • MLorenzMLorenz Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2012
    Hey Buzz,

    so here are some answers:

    1: Processing for all widgets connected to a console are done in the console, thats also a reason to limit it to a certain amount of widgets.

    2: Each DP8000 processes for its own 16 univereses, so if you connect a widget to a DP8000 processing is done there, if you connect it to a console see answer #1

    3: DMX is processed on board, with enough resources, the 8 outputs are physically the same PCB like the super douper widget. You can see this also in the network-window, as a real DP8000 wir processor would have its own IP address.

    4: DMX is processed on board, with enough resources, the 4 outputs are physically the same PCB like the super widget. Same here as in answer #3

    5: Same in a Roadhog, like in answer #4 (oh you didn´t asked for that ;-) )

    Hope this helps
  • Buzz313thBuzz313th Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2012
    Interesting Marc,

    I thought that .........


    Any DMX processing from a USB widget is done from the patched DP, whether it be virtual or actual, onboard or offboard.... regardless of where in the USB buss the physical connection is. After all, USB is suposed to be just an interconnecting buss designed for extremely low latency.

    I also assumed that the difference between a virtual and actual DP was simply that, an actual DP has it' own CPU and memory that would do it's own DMX processing for it's own "Patch", where a virtual DP would do it's "DMX Patch" processing on the consoles shared cpu and memory regardless of where in the network (USB or Ethernet) it's plugged in at.

    I also thought that the H4 console does have it's own DP seperate from the console CPU. Thus giving it two seperate CPU's, one to run the 16 universes (8 onboard + 8 Offboard (widgets) or sACN/Artnet)) and one to run the console. The H4 internal DP is just built in to the console case and probably on the PCIe, or USB buss thus no reason to define it as a seperate network device (Change the IP). Where as the FB and RH don't have a seperate DP built into the console, thus the onboard CPU (Virtual DP) is running the widgets..


    Thanks for your insight Marc.. I guess I'm gonna need to pick up the bar bill next friday..

    :)

    JB
  • MLorenzMLorenz Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2012
    Buzz313th;64502 said:
    Interesting Marc,

    I thought that .........


    Any DMX processing from a USB widget is done from the patched DP, whether it be virtual or actual, onboard or offboard.... regardless of where in the USB buss the physical connection is. After all, USB is suposed to be just an interconnecting buss designed for extremely low latency.
    You are right, but the widget will only show up to that network-device (console or DP8000) where it is connected, so thats why the processing is done in that node, no matter if it is virtual or physical
    Buzz313th;64502 said:

    I also assumed that the difference between a virtual and actual DP was simply that, an actual DP has it' own CPU and memory that would do it's own DMX processing for it's own "Patch", where a virtual DP would do it's "DMX Patch" processing on the consoles shared cpu and memory regardless of where in the network (USB or Ethernet) it's plugged in at.
    Right, did I mention something different?
    Virtual DPs exist only in consoles, but if you network 2 consoles, you will have 2 virtual DPs running, and each of the console does its processing.
    Buzz313th;64502 said:

    I also thought that the H4 console does have it's own DP seperate from the console CPU. Thus giving it two seperate CPU's, one to run the 16 universes (8 onboard + 8 Offboard (widgets) or sACN/Artnet)) and one to run the console. The H4 internal DP is just built in to the console case and probably on the PCIe, or USB buss thus no reason to define it as a seperate network device (Change the IP). Where as the FB and RH don't have a seperate DP built into the console, thus the onboard CPU (Virtual DP) is running the widgets..
    No there is no dedicated RAM or CPU in the H4 for the DP8000.
    You are right it is on the USB Bus, the 8 Lines on 5-pin are connected via USB (it is the same PCB like the super douper widget and also shows up as an internal widget in the preferences). But the CPU is fast enough to handle the DP and Console processes without any problems.
    Buzz313th;64502 said:

    Thanks for your insight Marc.. I guess I'm gonna need to pick up the bar bill next friday..

    :)

    JB
    No problem.
    Happy new year
  • Buzz313thBuzz313th Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2012
    MLorenz;64503 said:

    No there is no dedicated RAM or CPU in the H4 for the DP8000.
    You are right it is on the USB Bus, the 8 Lines on 5-pin are connected via USB (it is the same PCB like the super douper widget and also shows up as an internal widget in the preferences). But the CPU is fast enough to handle the DP and Console processes without any problems.

    Ok, so last dumb question if you don't mind...

    Is the internal DMX out limitation on the H4 consoles (16 Universes on the H4, 12 on the FB4 and 8 on the RH4) due to benchmark results of less processing power or computing resources on the FB and RH when compared to the H4? Or, do all the consoles have the same CPU and Ram specs with the limitation just being a choice from HES to keep the consoles scalable?

    And have a happy and safe New Year..

    JB
  • MLorenzMLorenz Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2012
    As I´m only a HOG4 trainer, and not a tech-engineer of HES, I only can tell what I think and know from what i discovered ;-)

    I think it´s both, mainboard hardware differs from H4, FB4 and RH4, I don´t know about RAM, i think as far as I remember they all come with 8GB RAM.
    I was only working with HOG4 so far and system info only tells x86 processor but no exact details about how many cores.
  • kurtiswilkkurtiswilk Registered User
    edited December 2012
    Lots of great info. One question from me. The Hog4.then really doesn't have a dp 8000. Just a super douper widget and a software tweak?

    Kurtis
  • MLorenzMLorenz Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2012
    In comparison to the HOG3 where no DMX Processing was direct possible, it is now a DP8000 inbuilt (no matter if it is virtual or physical) with all options a real DP8000 would also provide.
    I don´t mind if i have a dedicated Processor for the inbuilt DP8000 or not. I can have 16 universes direct out of the console. That´s what matters... ;-)

    Same as it was before in a Fullboar 3 with the limits to 12 universes (and is also now with Fullboar 4)

    A external DP8000 also has a "super douper widget" inside, plus a processor to do all calculations for the 16 universes. If you look in your network-settings of your DP you will also find under the DMX-Widget Tab: DP8000 Front Panel Output 1-8. If you look inside a DP8000, the PCB is very similiar to the one of the super douper widget. What makes also absolut sense.... Why rebuilding something which is already there and working.
    By the way, the super douper widget is the old DP8000-Extender, so if you own one, you can use that direct with any HOG4 Hard and Software
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User, DL Beta, Hog Beta
    edited January 2013
    kurtiswilk;64510 said:
    Lots of great info. One question from me. The Hog4.then really doesn't have a dp 8000. Just a super douper widget and a software tweak?
    H4 does have exactly the same PCB hardware as a DP-8000, but it is simply built into the chassis of the console rather than requiring the first DP to be external as with Hog-3.

    To the best of my knowledge the FB4 and RH4 only have internal super widgets as with the "3" line.

    Hope this helps. :)
  • MLorenzMLorenz Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited January 2013
    Hey Marty
    but when you look inside the console you only see the PCB for the DMX Outputs, no extra processor.
    And when you look on the main-PCB you will only see 3 graphic-adapters and the main-CPU

    I think this was the question.
    With the rest you are right, same hardware like a DP8000 or the Super Douper Widget
  • Buzz313thBuzz313th Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited January 2013
    If the H4 has its own physical "Dp8000" not virtual, then it should have its own boot cycle, cpu, ram and should be seen as a seperate network device just like the external dp8000.
    This would isolate it from the processes of the console itself.

    For those of you with an H4.... After loading a show does the processes window show the "dmx processor process" as being associated with the console just as it does on the FB, RH and PC?
  • robbie_brucerobbie_bruce Registered User
    edited January 2013
    The DP8k launches a process we simply call the "OB" (output board)..

    On all desks with DMX output, we also launch pretty much the same OB process. It does get a bit of process priority but it sharing processing with console operations. We feel we have enough processing capacity on Hog4 to maintain our output/feedback performance benchmarks while not impacting the user's input/feedback.

    The actual output devices (widgets, acn, artnet, etc, super duper widget) are really just simple plugins to the engine.. We don't care how the outputs are mapped.. The engine is the same regardless.

    It is a bit of a balancing act and each show is different but our performance benchmarks are checked with each build to ensure we have not created bottlenecks on the console's.

    I hope this helps
  • Buzz313thBuzz313th Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited January 2013
    Thanks Robbie,

    Your explanation does help.

    If you don't mind answering one more question though...

    Are the hardware specs (CPU, Ram and Buss Freq) for the different H4 consoles scaled down from the H4 Console to the Roadhog Respectively?

    And if so, can you comment on those hardware specs for each of the H4 Desks?

    JB
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