TouchOSC and MIDI

michandrzmichandrz Registered User
Enableing the TouchOSC and midi fader movements on the hog4pc if any hardware is connected.


Related thread: http://forums.highend.com/showthread.php?p=63722#post63722

Comments

  • ShrunkenNedShrunkenNed Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited November 2012
    +1

    I also request this feature
  • Buzz313thBuzz313th Registered User
    edited November 2012
    I would like to see the encoders and faders enabled in OSC for Hog PC.

    I have invested quite a bit in HES hardware and to nerf a really nice feature to hopefully increase sales IMHO is not necessary.
  • SAGUdjSAGUdj Registered User
    edited November 2012
    +1

    HOG PC + wings = Console (IMHO)

    Would like to see OSC fully enabled for HOG PC to use when I am on stage or up in the air focusing.
  • chrisfchrisf Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited December 2012
    Hi All,

    I have been following this and the previous thread with interest.

    I find myself in agreement with those of you who feel that Fader and Encoder control should be activated if a hardware wing be present. It is something which we are looking into.

    As soon as we have some news on this front i will revert back.

    Many thanks

    Chris
  • Firewood1Firewood1 Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2012
    Hi Chris,

    I'm pleased you are in agreement with this.

    Can it also be looked into to find a method of activating this in the software for console owners, whether they are connected at the time or not?

    When I send my console away ahead of me before a job and I am left with Hog PC in the office. having faders and encoders available on the iPad would be very beneficial and Having just bought a Hog 4, this functionality doesn't seem like an unreasonable request.

    Cheers

    Colin
  • MLorenzMLorenz Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2012
    Hey Colin

    not unreasonable, but I think hard to handle. This would end up with dongles delivered with a console or so.
    And to be honest, how often do you think will you have to use it. Since years we worked without. Now we have it with the console, and maybe soon with wings attached. Already a big step forward. And there is still the app in planning... So maybe we get faders working there....
  • michandrzmichandrz Registered User
    edited December 2012
    MLorenz wrote: »
    Hey Colin

    not unreasonable, but I think hard to handle. This would end up with dongles delivered with a console or so.
    And to be honest, how often do you think will you have to use it. Since years we worked without. Now we have it with the console, and maybe soon with wings attached. Already a big step forward. And there is still the app in planning... So maybe we get faders working there....

    I was under the impression it was going to be with any hardware attached, which means a widget too. If you've got the budget for a hog 4 I'm guessing you've got the budget for a DMX widget and then you could use that as your backup console as well.
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited December 2012
    Firewood1 wrote: »
    When I send my console away ahead of me before a job and I am left with Hog PC in the office. having faders and encoders available on the iPad would be very beneficial and Having just bought a Hog 4, this functionality doesn't seem like an unreasonable request.

    I agree it would be hard to handle.
    Not really sure there is any need for OSC if you are sitting on front of your H4PC in an office anyway since you have better control directly on the computer.
    The only reason I can think of is to test custom OSC layouts.....but you probably want to do that before the desk goes out anyway.....

    OSC is really only useful as a small, basic-functions-only, remote.
    It will never replace a full desk or a Tablet PC networked in as a client.
    IMHO, if you need that much tactility without the full desk in an office setting, you might want to look into purchasing a Nano Wing.
  • MLorenzMLorenz Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2012
    michandrz wrote: »
    I was under the impression it was going to be with any hardware attached, which means a widget too. If you've got the budget for a hog 4 I'm guessing you've got the budget for a DMX widget and then you could use that as your backup console as well.

    My setups require often or most of the time more than just a widget...
    So Backups are most of the times done with another console....
    Roadhog will be perfect for that....

    Also agree what Marty said.
    Heavy preprogramming or setups are better done with real hardware like a nano or other wings
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited December 2012
    michandrz wrote: »
    I was under the impression it was going to be with any hardware attached, which means a widget too. If you've got the budget for a hog 4 I'm guessing you've got the budget for a DMX widget and then you could use that as your backup console as well.

    I would seriously doubt that.
    I personally think you should have physical faders and encoders attached via a wing or wings to "unlock" that feature via OSC. Not just a DMX widget.
    So a Nano wing might get you control of both.
    A Playback wing might only get you control of faders, and a programming wing might only get you control of encoders (unless you have both wings....then you might get both).

    If you need to go to backup solution.....the last thing you're going to be worried about is what you can or cannot do via OSC!
  • michandrzmichandrz Registered User
    edited December 2012
    I would seriously doubt that.
    I personally think you should have physical faders and encoders attached via a wing or wings to "unlock" that feature via OSC. Not just a DMX widget.
    So a Nano wing might get you control of both.
    A Playback wing might only get you control of faders, and a programming wing might only get you control of encoders (unless you have both wings....then you might get both).

    If you need to go to backup solution.....the last thing you're going to be worried about is what you can or cannot do via OSC!


    Taken out of context.

    I'm was thinking easiest for HES to program, but if that's how they want to program it, let them knock their selves out. They would have to look back at every wing they've ever made though and have to say weather or not it has encoders or faders vs. just if it has hardware it's a console

    The "as a backup console" was just a throw in of course your not worried about OSC when your show's on fire.

    Also I could see sitting on the bus with a laptop and an IPad instead of a Nano or even wings.
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited December 2012
    Understood.
    It should be fairly easy to differentiate what is connected or not, since each type of wing uses its' own driver.
    Your iPad with laptop example is exactly what they should be protecting against...users controlling hardware that isn't actually present.....the software is already free....so no cheap/free hardware shortcuts.
    If you've got a laptop with a wing, then you're all good to go with your tablet device on the bus.....you probably wouldn't want to do any kind of significant work in this manner without the tactility of a wing anyway.
  • FutureWeaponsFutureWeapons Registered User
    edited December 2012
    I agree with this idea 100%. It would be fantastic to be able to purchase a Nano Wing for club installs, that could then be paired up with an iPad remote. Certain competitors already do this, they seem to be making money just fine.
  • BenwinBenwin Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2012
    I appreciate you want to stop people setting up a cheap Hog4 system but using the iPad as a programing wing with a laptop when updating shows in hotel rooms, on bus's or planes etc. would be very nice, very nice indeed.

    Maybe if there was some way of limiting output to a visuliser only.

    B
  • michandrzmichandrz Registered User
    edited December 2012
    Benwin wrote: »
    I appreciate you want to stop people setting up a cheap Hog4 system but using the iPad as a programing wing with a laptop when updating shows in hotel rooms, on bus's or planes etc. would be very nice, very nice indeed.

    Maybe if there was some way of limiting output to a visuliser only.

    B
    My thoughts exactly.....no one wants to drag the console into an already small space!
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited December 2012
    michandrz wrote: »
    ...no one wants to drag the console into an already small space!


    Exactly the type of situation to use a Nano Wing IMHO.
  • michandrzmichandrz Registered User
    edited December 2012
    Exactly the type of situation to use a Nano Wing IMHO.

    • 26.7” (678.18mm) wide by 13.76” (349.52mm) deep by 3.54” (89.85mm) high
    • Weight: 18.1 lbs (8.21 kg)
    Plus my laptop 17.5", plus the flight case that holds that thing vs:


    Height:9.50 inches (241.2 mm)Width:7.31 inches (185.7 mm)Depth:0.34 inch (8.8 mm)
    Weight:1.35 pounds (613 g) (Wi‑Fi + 3G model)Weight:1.34 pounds (607 g) (Wi‑Fi + 3G for Verizon model)plus my laptop 17.5"

    Hm.....i seem to see a vast difference in weight, cost, functionality, and size, just saying.
  • michandrzmichandrz Registered User
    edited December 2012
    Your iPad with laptop example is exactly what they should be protecting against...users controlling hardware that isn't actually present.....the software is already free....so no cheap/free hardware shortcuts.
    or it's the epitome for the guy who is editing his show in the back corner of the bus, because of a mistake that happened tonight. while the everyone else is sound asleep enroute to the next venue..
  • Buzz313thBuzz313th Registered User
    edited December 2012
    Personally I don't think HES needs to be concerned about ppl building a cheap hog with an interface from touch osc as its not really consistent enough via wireless to do any serious cue triggering or fading. Since the I devices and most of the android devices don't have a wired network card, then they are limited to wireless.

    Personally a dedicated HPC tower and wings is the most budget friendly system that I would ever run a hog server on. I won't even run the primary server or a virtual DP on a laptop.

    With that being said, if someone wants to risk running a show off of an HPC system with only an IPad and Touch OSC as their primary hard UI, then that's their problem. IMHO, anyone serious enough to bring their controller on a show, will at a minimum bring a dedicated HPC system with wings and touchscreens.

    By the way, anyone wanna buy my FB3 so I can finally get a FB4?

    ;)
  • Buzz313thBuzz313th Registered User
    edited December 2012
    Personally I don't think HES needs to be concerned about ppl building a cheap hog with an interface from touch osc as its not really consistent enough via wireless to do any serious cue triggering or fading. Since the I devices and most of the android devices don't have a wired network card, then they are limited to wireless.

    Personally a dedicated HPC tower and wings is the most budget friendly system that I would ever run a hog server on. I won't even run the primary server or a virtual DP on a laptop.

    With that being said, if someone wants to risk running a show off of an HPC system with only an IPad and Touch OSC as their primary hard UI, then that's their problem. IMHO, anyone serious enough to bring their controller on a show, will at a minimum bring a dedicated HPC system with wings and touchscreens.

    By the way, anyone wanna buy my FB3 so I can finally get a FB4?

    ;)
  • michandrzmichandrz Registered User
    edited December 2012
    Buzz313th wrote: »
    Personally I don't think HES needs to be concerned about ppl building a cheap hog with an interface from touch osc as its not really consistent enough via wireless to do any serious cue triggering or fading. Since the I devices and most of the android devices don't have a wired network card, then they are limited to wireless.

    Personally a dedicated HPC tower and wings is the most budget friendly system that I would ever run a hog server on. I won't even run the primary server or a virtual DP on a laptop.

    With that being said, if someone wants to risk running a show off of an HPC system with only an IPad and Touch OSC as their primary hard UI, then that's their problem. IMHO, anyone serious enough to bring their controller on a show, will at a minimum bring a dedicated HPC system with wings and touchscreens.

    By the way, anyone wanna buy my FB3 so I can finally get a FB4?

    ;)
    Agreed I'd never run a show from this type of system unless i had no other choice, but I could very well see programing from it.
  • MLorenzMLorenz Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2012
    I dont know what kind of shows you are programming, but I would go crazy when i would have to programm with an ipad as my programmer-wing....

    And if you really would like your ipad doing this thing, than dont usw OSC use idisplay...
    Move your Frontpanel to the ipad and go....
  • michandrzmichandrz Registered User
    edited December 2012
    MLorenz wrote: »
    I dont know what kind of shows you are programming, but I would go crazy when i would have to programm with an ipad as my programmer-wing....

    And if you really would like your ipad doing this thing, than dont usw OSC use idisplay...
    Move your Frontpanel to the ipad and go....

    really? i find iDisplay to be WAY laggy in comparison to touchOSC, but to each his own.
  • MLorenzMLorenz Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2012
    But it works... Personally i would never use a ipad as a replacement for a wing in a show.
    But for all these situations described above like editing in the bus or hotel room and the need for faders i can live with the idisplay.

    When preprogramming in the office i´m using my programmerwing or now a nano...

    I love the OSC stuff for testing a rig or so...
    And like said, and Chris also confirmed, that OSC should be available when a wing is attached would be great
  • Buzz313thBuzz313th Registered User
    edited December 2012
    Funny thing bout all this is that if the nano wing was just a hair bit closer in price point to the top of the line IPad, then buying a nano instead of using an Ipad would be the obvious choice..

    Question regarding this...

    Is the Nano being sold with or without the super widget installed? And.. whats the general difference in price for the unit with the installed widget and without?

    JB
  • michandrzmichandrz Registered User
    edited December 2012
    MLorenz wrote: »
    But it works... Personally i would never use a ipad as a replacement for a wing in a show.
    But for all these situations described above like editing in the bus or hotel room and the need for faders i can live with the idisplay.

    When preprogramming in the office i´m using my programmerwing or now a nano...

    I love the OSC stuff for testing a rig or so...
    And like said, and Chris also confirmed, that OSC should be available when a wing is attached would be great

    Like I said I can't stand iDisplay for that purpose only. compressing and sending an entire video stream seams like a waste and in my experience is so lagy, however I do see your point.

    Funny thing bout all this is that if the nano wing was just a hair bit closer in price point to the top of the line IPad, then buying a nano instead of using an Ipad would be the obvious choice..

    Question regarding this...

    Is the Nano being sold with or without the super widget installed? And.. whats the general difference in price for the unit with the installed widget and without?

    JB
    hm...never thought of that before....can one of the HES guys comment on that?
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited December 2012
    Buzz313th wrote: »
    Is the Nano being sold with or without the super widget installed? And.. whats the general difference in price for the unit with the installed widget and without?

    Nano comes without internal Super Widget as standard.
    Super Widget is an additional option for Nano.
    Talk to your dealer regarding pricing for either config.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited December 2012
    As I can remember, I think that there is a special offer for the Nano until the end of december, it will come with 4 output.
  • MLorenzMLorenz Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited December 2012
    michandrz wrote: »
    Like I said I can't stand iDisplay for that purpose only. compressing and sending an entire video stream seams like a waste and in my experience is so lagy, however I do see your point.


    I just tried it here during a HOG4 training I did, and it was not lagy.
    I understand your point as well. But it worked...
  • sinclairsinclair Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited January 2013
    +1

    My vote is to have all controls active, regardless of hardware attached. Who in their right mind would use an iPad as a sole control surface?! By itself you can't even see a command line to confirm where you are. It certainly makes your brain work harder visualizing the console's state. This kluge is a nice effort, but really wants to be a more complete solution.

    And how about the native app if that ever emerges? Will that also have hardware limitations? In-app purchases for encoders? Fader packs?

    And in the end, we already have fully functional virtual encoders and faders with our tablets running full clients so why all the fuss about doing it with an iDevice?

    There's my $0.02

    A huge thanks to the HES developers and staff for all their continuing efforts to making Hog an incredible platform to light with!
  • Artem DokshinArtem Dokshin Registered User
    edited August 2013
    + 1 0 0
  • MLorenzMLorenz Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited August 2013
    sinclair wrote: »
    +1

    My vote is to have all controls active, regardless of hardware attached. Who in their right mind would use an iPad as a sole control surface?! By itself you can't even see a command line to confirm where you are. It certainly makes your brain work harder visualizing the console's state. This kluge is a nice effort, but really wants to be a more complete solution.

    And how about the native app if that ever emerges? Will that also have hardware limitations? In-app purchases for encoders? Fader packs?

    And in the end, we already have fully functional virtual encoders and faders with our tablets running full clients so why all the fuss about doing it with an iDevice?

    There's my $0.02

    A huge thanks to the HES developers and staff for all their continuing efforts to making Hog an incredible platform to light with!

    I know a lot people who would do it!!!
    And it is not just ipad... There is a lot Hardware around that can send out OSC commands....
    Will make all real wings useless...
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