AutoPalletes For Multi Intensity Fixtures

Playdoe9Playdoe9 Registered User
Hi,

I am not sure if this was ever an official request.

I have a request fore All fixtures that are Multi-Intensity Parameter Fixtures that have Sub-Intensities, to have the Auto-Palette function Create a Per Type Direct 0% Palette and a Global Direct 100% Palette 100% for each globe.

This is mainly for the Movie Fixtures. This should apply to All Multi-Intensity Parameter Fixtures under the categories: Movie Lights, Kino Flos, LumaPanels.

For Space Lights, Chicken Coops, Far Cycs, Image 80s + more

For every new job, we have to create Intensity palettes for every globe of a light, on and off. Sometimes it is just 4 globes, sometimes 14.

A Space Light has 6 globes. We have to record a palettes that is 100% and 0% for each one for each sub-intensity. This is time intensive and taxing for the programmer for every new show we start. Sometime 3 times in one week for commercials.

This should be easy enough since the ability to create auto-palettes is already a function. IT would be great to add to the next build of 3.

Would be great for the next Hog3 build as well.

The more people that voice their approval, the more likely it is to happen.

-Ben

Comments

  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited November 2012
    Personally I never use the multi-intensity fixture profiles for these units as I find them too klunky....I just patch a desk channel for each lamp and assign a logical range of user numbers and build groups accordingly.

    This way you can also directly adjust the levels with the keypad (@ + 10%, @ -12%, etc.) for each lamp or the unit as a whole via Group as well as only build one set of intensity palettes if need be.

    Also if you label them in Patch and enable the Note column in your Programmer and/or Output windows, then it is even easier to keep track of.

    Hope this helps. :)
  • Playdoe9Playdoe9 Registered User
    edited November 2012
    While that is one way to do it, whenever I use these fixtures, the profiles are super helpful and here is why.

    I have 10 - 6 Channel Space lights. Most DPs and gaffers use these because they can maintain a white light while changing the overall output.

    So if the boss says "give me 2 globes on all the Spacelights," I hit my space light group, then 100% for the master intensity, and then hit hit "globe 1 on" and "globe 2 on" from my intensity palette.

    So that was 4 touch screen movements.

    Then, he says "Add one more globe to the first 5" So I tap my group for the first 5 fixtures, then I tap, Globe 4 On.

    Two touch screen movements.

    When its all about speed for the programmer, not sure how you can beat that as individual channels.

    -Ben
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited November 2012
    I am quite familiar with Space-Lights, etc as I've used them many times myself on film shoots and even some large scale events.

    Yes, it is easier "right out of the box" to use a multi-intensity fixture, but setting up proper Groups can do the same thing, it just takes a few more minutes to program initially, but then it saves you LOADS of programming time later by being able to directly enter levels via keypad, I-wheel, etc as I already mentioned in addition to the text label on each Desk Channel to better ID each globe.

    For example you might build a Group with all the #2 globes only.....then you can simply "Next" through to adjust them as you go if you don't need all of them.

    Also you can build an ordered group that has all the globes but goes through all the #1s first, then the #2s, etc, etc. as you NEXT or BACK through. (Or whatever order you think you might need to access them in).

    A different approach, that takes a little getting used to, but I've found it to be much faster and more powerful once you get the hang of it.
  • barnes2000barnes2000 Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited November 2012
    The main reason for these fixtures is to treat them more like a mover, which gives you full palette control and better feedback about the fixture. It also help to organize the Output window and let you see those fixtures separate from regular Desk Channels. True that a group of Desk Channels can be recorded into palettes too, but since it is actually six different fixtures(or 8, or 14 in some cases), the information displayed can be cluttered. Here are some other reasons I use these fixtures:

    When you have hundreds of these fixtures and some are at 3 bulbs and some are at four and so on, it can be helpful to actually create Intensity palettes that are 1 Bulb, 2 Bulb, 3 Bulb, etc. By using these palettes, when the gaffer ask for all the fixtures that are at two bulbs and make them three, it's the same as selecting all the movers that are Red....you just hit Live then the 2 Bulb palette and switch them to 3 Bulbs. I let the console keep track of what fixtures are what bulb setting. Why should I figure that out when the console can do it in a snap?

    Another reason is that by having the Master Intensity parameter, you are able to set looks on set by choosing the bulbs you want on. Then let's say they ask you to turn a section off, but they will come back to it later. Selecting the fixtures and hitting @ 0% will kill them, but the relative bulb values will still be at what they were. When they want them back on, just bring the Master Int back to full, or wherever it was at and the same bulbs will be on as before. Yet even better is building effects across the SubIntensities and then being able to drive their overall intensity up and down, or even Off, with the Master Intensity.

    The Master Intensity parameter, to me, is like having a dedicated inhibitor for that fixture. I can set all the SubIntensities to whatever I want and still Inhibit the fixture with the Master Intensity.
  • barnes2000barnes2000 Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited November 2012
    For example you might build a Group with all the #2 globes only.....then you can simply "Next" through to adjust them as you go if you don't need all of them.

    Also you can build an ordered group that has all the globes but goes through all the #1s first, then the #2s, etc, etc. as you NEXT or BACK through. (Or whatever order you think you might need to access them in).


    This is a good point and I use this method too, but only when I know I need that kind of individual control.
  • Michael_GrahamMichael_Graham Registered User, Super Moderator, HES Staff
    edited November 2012
    Hello

    I spoke to someone at LDI (I am sorry I have forgotten your name!) who asked this same thing.
    I have logged a bug/feature for this.
    I currently have no time frame on when this will get added.
  • Playdoe9Playdoe9 Registered User
    edited November 2012
    Hey Marty,

    Thanks for the alternative suggestion, but I am guessing that way takes about as much programming as it does for me to make intensity palattes for each globe. I am suggesting they automate palette creation that I have to do for virtually every new show creation.

    Just curious about the method you mentioned... I see a few problems for my setup. If the gaffer were to ask you "How many globes are on in Spacelight 3?" what steps would you have to perform to check?

    I hit, 3, suck. 2 keystrokes.

    Scott has a great point as well, I can look in my output window and see what all the spacelights are at... where that would be next to impossible to determine if they were just a desk channel.

    Michael, yep...that was me. :)

    -Ben
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited November 2012
    Playdoe9 wrote: »
    Just curious about the method you mentioned... I see a few problems for my setup. If the gaffer were to ask you "How many globes are on in Spacelight 3?" what steps would you have to perform to check?

    I hit, 3, suck. 2 keystrokes.

    Scott has a great point as well, I can look in my output window and see what all the spacelights are at... where that would be next to impossible to determine if they were just a desk channel.

    I can see the advantage of having a Master Intensity in certain situations beyond just making an Inhibitive Master (Which is what I normally do).

    As for Output window, it is really very fast and easy to differentiate with Desk Channels (beyond simply looking at logical separation of user number ranges) if you add text labels when you patch and enable the "Note" column in the Output window.

    No keystrokes required to see this (unless I need to Open a View with the Output Window of course).
  • xp677xp677 Registered User
    edited November 2012
    Playdoe9 wrote: »
    This is time intensive and taxing for the programmer for every new show we start. Sometime 3 times in one week for commercials.

    I don't have time to read the whole thread so this may already be covered. For things like this, it's a good idea to have a template show with dummy fixtures already patched and palettes/common cuelists created. You can just make one by taking an old show (with all the programming in), and deleting the other junk. Then it's easy to clone/change type to get the fixtures you want. If you're using the same palettes for the same lights 3 times per week, why waste time doing it all from scratch?
  • rosswillrosswill Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited November 2012
    I think a lot of these issues will be resolved with the implementation of “meta fixtures” (fixtures that belong to a parent group) which is something I have discussed with the developers. Once there is functionality to have fixtures 1.1 thru 1.14 attached to fixture 1 I think this will help as auto palettes can generate both sides of this . You could also then do whole fixture next or part fixture next functions such as suck, touch, copy and highlight. I look forward to this making it into the software sometime.

    Regards

    Ross
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited November 2012
    rosswill wrote: »
    I think a lot of these issues will be resolved with the implementation of “meta fixtures” (fixtures that belong to a parent group) which is something I have discussed with the developers. Once there is functionality to have fixtures 1.1 thru 1.14 attached to fixture 1


    I like the idea of the meta-fixture, but I don't think it should be implemented as decimal fixtures. I think it should be a "master fixture" type assigned in Patch that has a unique fixture number.

    The problem with decimal fixtures is that is makes "Thru" syntax unusable. MA2 has this "feature" and it is a real PITA when you want to select just the second cell of a unit across a range.

    For example the DLV profile on that desk is done this way.....so if you want to select all the GFX layer-1 across a range of units you have to type something like "101.3 + 102.3 + 103.3 + 104.3 + 105.3....etc.....etc"
    Same problem goes for LED batten fixtures, etc, etc....

    If this is implemented in H4, then there needs to be a logical way to use Thru syntax to select across a range.
  • stephlightstephlight Registered User
    edited November 2012
    Agree with Marty, decimal would be unuseful.
  • rosswillrosswill Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited November 2012
    Funny isn’t it how our views all differ. For me decimal is logical. I don’t know the MA but I agree with Marty 100% that fixture selection with thru etc needs to be both simple and logical. This is something the Hog does well already and should not change.

    If decimals were implemented I would imagine something like:
    "1 thru 20" could select the parent fixtures. "Fixture 1 thru 20" could select the parent and child fixtures and "1.1 thru 20.1" could select just the child. There's probably a better key than the fixture key but hopefully you see where I'm coming from.

    Similarly you could say that "2.1 next" selects 2.3 whilst "fixture 2.1 next" selects 3.1

    I like decimals for a number of reasons. Firstly as they are immediately obvious when looking at a show or patch as to where they belong. If you step into an unfamiliar rig you don’t waste time trying to figure out someone’s complicated numbering system. They can easily follow the same colour coding as the parent fixture (when implemented) and easily be expanded or collapsed in various views without breaking this logic. Furthermore the simple action of labelling a fixture as a point fixture would be all it takes to add it as a child to a parent fixture so there's no need to differentiate at library level between them and we won't be running back and forth with endless library requests to make this work.

    It also allows for all kinds of show specific hybrid setups such as the ones I stumble across. Let’s say you have a moving light focused onto a moving mirror. You can make them belong to each other by simply giving the mirror a point name, even though it may already be a multi patch point fixture. It also allows for complex fixtures with grandchild attributes such as 2.1.1.

    I’m sure there are other ways to achieve this but this is the one that makes most sense to me, or at least I think it is.

    Regards

    Ross
  • dslodkidslodki Registered User
    And here we are, three years later and still no autopalette for multi-intensity fixtures. (And I too have made this request face to face with reps from HES at LDI.)
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