I needs some tips please.

jstnmac86jstnmac86 Registered User
I have an opportunity to programm a festival coming up and I have a good base knowledge of the hog 3. I recently have been introduced to the concept of busking and creating playbacks for different parameters and being able to play them back at any time rather than trying to think through every cue. My problem is trying to implement this with the hog. Given I will have only 9 or 10 playback faders how do I get all the different parameters that I would like to access on one playback bus. I've seen talk about about virtual playbacks of the forum but what is a virtual play back on the hog where do you access that. For busking certain parameters I thought I heard pallets were a good way to do this or is that not ok. Also is it possible to use play back faders as effect rate modifiers? The festival isn't very complicated about 60 par cans on a down stage truss and 1K2 movers on an upstage. I'm assuming there needs to be different looks for color washes and chase patterns for the par cans but I would like to do some interesting stuff with the movers. Any tips any one has would be helpful I'm new to this forum. I would really like to learn an efficient way to program a busking type of show.

Comments

  • jxgriffijxgriffi Registered User, DL Beta, Hog Beta
    edited April 2012
    There's lots of information on here for busking...use the search function and you'll see lots of threads.

    This thread can get you started.

    Also, check out Nook's Ultimate Punt Page here.
  • ChrisTallChrisTall Registered User, DL Beta
    edited April 2012
    I remember my first busking show.
    The thought of busking scared the crap out of me after having done years of cue-to-cue shows.

    After about the third song I was lovin' it!
    And by the second event I'd done I was comfortable with the "tricks".
    Jon is a great source on doing this.

    You do need to decide on how you feel most comfortable running it.
    Making use of Pallets and/or Virtual Cuelists.
    Or, rent a Playback Wing or Expansion Wing so you can have everything on hard surface.

    Besides helping you get the board setup here's some tips that help me,
    (the shortlist)

    Forget about a Playlist from the bands, but find out who's playing and listen to their music ahead of time.

    Leave some room for adding things.
    It's all gonna start to make sense part way through and you're gonna go,
    "ooh I need a fader for..." " a ____chase would work great"

    Stop when the music stops.
    If you have Effects and/or Chases running, you'll need to stop them, all.
    One way is a cuelist that is one empty cue with a Macro that Releases all Effect/Chase Lists.

    Light the Money.
    Depending on the music/style you may need to make sure you can always light the lead person/s.
    Have one front fixture dedicated for that.
    Give it it's own separate cuelist.
    Cue 1 Keyboard
    Cue 2 Guitarist.
    Cue 3 Singer
    Update it for each band while they are setting up.

    Layer Parameters/Effects
    Example:
    One Cuelist is a bunch of positions.
    Another list is Position Effects, but recorded with E only (Effect Only).
    That way it adds the Effect to the current position.

    Programming Time
    Regardless of how much time your told you'll have on-site,
    plan for about 1/4 that.
    You can pre-program at least 90% of a busking setup on HOG PC.

    Separating Parameters
    When you select some parameters the console automatically selects its associated ones.
    Like Pan and Tilt.
    Gobo and Gobo Rotate (I believe)
    To de-select one parameter, Hold the backspace key while turning the encoder.
    Then set Rotate at say 200 rpm and record to a cuelist (cue 1).
    Go to Cuelist Options and set as IPCB fader.


    So, before your first time can you get some time on a rig?
    Your local rental shop?
  • jstnmac86jstnmac86 Registered User
    edited April 2012
    Thanks for the info. I'm having a hard time understanding what changing the faders to IPCB exactly does any tips on that?
  • ChrisTallChrisTall Registered User, DL Beta
    edited April 2012
    A Fader normally only controls Intensity parameters for the Cuelist assigned to it.

    By changing it to IPCB (Intensity Position Color Beam) it "fades" all parameters in the cue.

    In the case I described using Gobo Rotate, with the Fader at Zero you would have no rotation, and as you push it up you would get more and more until you get to 200 rpm with the Fader at 100%.

    You said you had "and 1K2 movers" on the upstage truss.
    Could you be more specific, like Manufacturer and Model?

    What console are you using?
  • jstnmac86jstnmac86 Registered User
    edited April 2012
    whoops thats a typo its 12 movers 6 washes and 6 profiles. They are all Varilite but Im not sure of the model Numbers. Ill be using the Full Boar console I believe. All my experience I have with the hog is the hog PC setup with a program and playback wing. It seems the user interface for all the consoles are the same. Ive used the Hog 3 console before as well , that was out the the Main office of the Rental and Staging company I work for. Im used to doing only simple corporate gigs that don't require a lot of programming. Ive basically taught myself how to use the console from reading and experience. I think busking this show will be the best its just I don't know how to fit it all on 10 faders. Im assuming I will need to record various position with the movers then on another fader add some movement then another chase patterns or strobes. I have to however create different color looks with the static par cans and those will have to be split up over certain faders so I feel Im just gonna run out of space. The festival is 13 national rock acts split over 2 stages. Im gonna be running one of the stages. I really wanna do this show but I feel I don't know enough to be able to do things on the fly. My buddy keeps telling me its a lot simpler than it sounds but I just wanna have loads of Ideas.
  • jxgriffijxgriffi Registered User, DL Beta, Hog Beta
    edited April 2012
    Use virtual cuelists...A LOT...you'll be surprised at what you can do with 10 faders.

    And...if all else fails...build them on a couple of pages of faders. Then...on your virtual cuelists, make a couple of dummy ones that jump the pages to where you want to go. (Blank cue list with CPx - x being the page # to jump to). Just be sure your faders are set in preferences to "Keep in Background."
  • ChrisTallChrisTall Registered User, DL Beta
    edited April 2012
    Justin,

    "Main office of the Rental and Staging company I work for"
    I would hope your company let's you learn on the equipment in the off hours.
    If so, then get in there and set this up.
    Or borrow a console and some small movers for the weekend.

    What company and where are you located?

    As for busking...
    I believe you have the busking concept of making parts of parameters available to bring up on the fly.
    Positions, colors, gobos... each individually at the touch of a button.

    So, either you have a lot more hard surfaces like playback wings, or you do what Jon is suggesting and use Virtual cuelists.

    A virtual cuelist is one that is not attached to a fader.
    It is only in the List Pallet.
    Hold Open and press List button, or double tap List.

    (Jon is gonna need to jump in as I don't usually run the console this way...)

    Let's use colors as an example,
    Dial up RED in the Washes.
    Record that to List1 Cue1.
    Let's say you did this on Fader 10.
    Now hold the Choose button above Fader 10 and press the Delete button.
    This removes the Cuelist from Fader 10, but it is in the List pallet as List1.

    If you open the List pallet and make sure the Guard button if off in the top of the pallet, you can then press List1 and it will run that Cue.

    Now imagine a row of Lists of the colors you want to be able to use in the show.

    And rows of Positions, Gobos, Chases...

    Now all 10 Faders are free for the things that only really need faders,
    Intensities
    Gobo Rotate Speed
    Iris Rotate Speed

    How'd I do Jon?
  • jxgriffijxgriffi Registered User, DL Beta, Hog Beta
    edited April 2012
    Here's how I lay out my console for busking.

    Close all windows on your 2 touchscreens
    LIST - OPEN (This opens your List Directory)
    On the upper right touch screen, press SPLIT - This creates 2 List directories.
    Move 1 of them to the right touch screen - press Maximize
    The other one on the other screen - press Maximize.
    Your left touch screen...scroll down until you have an entire page of empty cue lists (I usually put this one around 100 so any necessary things will live above it)
    Find the last number on the left touch screen, then scroll the RIGHT touch screen to just past this...so you have a continuation of lists.

    SAVE THIS AS A VIEW - I call it BUSK and save it as View 10 so I can get to it easy with the OPEN-0 quick key and my fingers never leave the keypad.

    Now...that should give you access to about 128 lists right at your finger tips.

    The following is a description of how I setup of my view...color code as necessary so that you can quickly see "types" of effects or "types" of fixtures.
    Picture the screen as 4 quadrants (LIST screen split between both screens)
    Top half of the LEFT screen is COLOR
    Row 1 - Full stage color bumps / List 12 is a RELEASE THIS LINE macro (RL1>11)
    Row 2 - 1/2 Color Bumps (2 colors on 50/50 of the rig on cue 1. Cue 2 reverses the color) / List 24 is a RELEASE THIS LINE macro (RL13>23)
    Row 3 - More 1/2 Color bumps with a RELEASE THIS LINE at the end
    Row 4 is empty as a spacer

    Bottom Half of LEFT Screen is BEAM
    Row 5 - Straight Gobo Selections / List 60 is a RELEASE THIS LINE
    Row 6 - Slow < / Med < / Fast < / Fast > / Med > / Slow > on Gobo 1 - List 72 is a release this line - Add Iris steps, etc. to fill the line as needed.
    Row 7 - Same as Row 6 but with Gobo 2 and same release this line - Add other beam effects to fill the line as needed.

    (I do this to avoid filling up a fader with gobo rotation - use slow, med and fast and, for the most part, no one will ever know the difference)

    Top Half of RIGHT Screen
    Position moves - Spot Circle Small, Spot Circle Med, Spot Circle Large - Repeat for Wash - Same RELEASE THIS LINE at end
    Spot Kicks Small, Spot Kicks Med, Spot Kicks Large / Repeat for Wash - RELEASE THIS LINE at end
    This is also where I fill up with Nooks position suggestions...
    DSC, XXX, AUD, ROOF, CROSSSTAGE (where spots are in BAND, wash is description and the 2nd cue reverses)
    I also leave a space up here for what I call my "SAFETY" look...the oh crap someone is talking and I need light!

    Bottom Half of RIGHT Screen
    Intensity Effects - Slow Intensity Fades, White stripes, 50/50 (Spots/Wash), Odd/Even, 3 Circuit Chase, 4 Circuit Chase, FLICKER, Random Strobe, 10Hz. Strobe.

    That should give you a basic layout of my page.

    Leave your faders for intensity things. Band key lights, blinders. This usually leaves me a couple of extra slots by the time I'm done to be able to throw something there just in case.
  • jstnmac86jstnmac86 Registered User
    edited April 2012
    Wow thanks guys for the tips here. This has given me a lot to start with Im sure over the next few day I might post some more questions. Im going to spend some time off the clock at my shop and setup the PC version with some lights and play a bit. I think I keep building this festival up to much in my mind. Im just not going to be used to the environment Ill be in so I just want to make sure I have better control over the console.
  • jstnmac86jstnmac86 Registered User
    edited April 2012
    Ok so virtual cuelist. Im having a hard time figuring out how to release them. I down loaded hog pc to my computer and am just playing around with a few things. When you click on a virtual cuelist it activates with whatever timing you have but how do you release these quickly. Say Im doing this festival and I want to go black at the end of a song and I have multiple cuelist going do I need to program a cuelist to go black? I know you mentioned Jon the release this line Macro but Im having a hard time figuring out macros. It seems like i really need to learn the syntax of the console but where do you enter these macro commands. Can they be recorded into List or do they need to be entered into the macro window? Sorry If these questions seem repetitive or like Im ignoring what you've already sent Im just trying to understand and learn. I appreciate your patience.
  • xp677xp677 Registered User
    edited April 2012
    If you open any cuelist to view the cues, you have the cues listed with columns for cue number, name, fade time, delay time, mark, path, comment and on the right hand side (by default) is a 'Macro' column. This allows you to add 'comment' style macros to any cue. Tapping the macro box for any cue and pressing Set will bring up a list of available commands and their descriptions. You can add multiple commands - seperate them with a : symbol.

    E.g. to release lists 1 through 12, as Jon said above, you can use the macro command 'RL1>12'.

    You can take advantage of this by recording an empty cue into a new cuelist. The cue won't control your lights as you didn't program any data into it - but you can add a macro command to the 'Macro' box to have it automate your desk by mass releasing (or playing, halting, goto-ing, etc) your lists, changing pages or views, etc.

    The Hog 3 manual has a great explanation of Macros and is available within Hog3PC (top left of the right hand screen).
  • jstnmac86jstnmac86 Registered User
    edited April 2012
    Ok when you set a macro to Release multiple cue list how do you set the Release time for that macro release? And can you set different release time for different release macros?
  • jxgriffijxgriffi Registered User, DL Beta, Hog Beta
    edited May 2012
    The release time is set under the options of the INDIVIDUAL cue lists, not in the "Release" macro.
  • SanderLSanderL Registered User
    edited May 2012
    With the virtual cuelists, how do you operate it? When i`m having a list with something i wanna tap manually thru, can i do that also with the virtual cuelist. And that with normal buttons instead of tapping on the touchscreen (what i don`t like, if it is something on the beat of a song)
  • Hugovd89Hugovd89 Registered User
    edited May 2012
    SanderL wrote: »
    With the virtual cuelists, how do you operate it? When i`m having a list with something i wanna tap manually thru, can i do that also with the virtual cuelist. And that with normal buttons instead of tapping on the touchscreen (what i don`t like, if it is something on the beat of a song)

    You can do this with comment macro's and trigger them all from 1 master.

    C1 Virtual cuelist 1, GL1
    C2 Virtual cuelist 1, RL1
    C3 Virtual cuelist 2, GL2
    C4 Virtual cuelist 2, RL2
    C5 Virtual cuelist 3, GL3
    C6 Virtual cuelist 3, RL3

    set your master to IPCB and skip foward, skip back. And now you can use your flash button to give your virtual cuelist a go.

    if you want to go even further you can add a comment macro to your virtualcuelists cue 1 to set your your master trigger list to the correct cue for example

    you launch virtual cuelist 3 then add GM../6 and it setsyout trigger master to the correct position for this virtualcuelist
  • jstnmac86jstnmac86 Registered User
    edited May 2012
    Does anyone have any good ideas for chase patterns and how to program them? Is it better to program a long list of cues and make a chase out of a cue list, Or is it better to program with intensity effects?
  • WilliamOWilliamO Registered User
    edited May 2012
    So I have been using a "busking" method for the last few weeks ever since my theatre cut my rehearsal times in half. I love it so far, but I'm comming across come minor annoyances I'm hoping some of you can help with.
    I have a rig of 30 Mac washes and 25 Mac Spots, loads of conventionals, a Martin QFX Star Drop and 10 Mac 250 spots on the stage. My Hog is set up with Washes and enviorment effect on the left screen, and my spots on the right. Very close to how Brad described with a few differences. A few of the problems I have:

    Focusing spots - Being my spots are spread out over a large stage, the focus is not always great, is there someway I can make another cuelist which can help with this. Something like a "Bump focus up 10%" or "down 10%", preferably something that will not take up a whole row of cuelists.

    Star Drop- My star drop will run through its twinkle effect for about 90 seconds then stop for about 5 seconds, then start again. Its not bad when I'm using a slow twinkle but a fast one kills the look for that amount time.

    Spots - As of now, all of my Mac Spots are grouped together in these cuelists, so unless I write a specific list with a higher priority all of do the same thing. Is there a space saving way to make just, say "the 3rd electric" follow a particualy virtual playback? I'm not sure I'm explaining it well, or if its just a pipe dream.

    I have loads more questions, but this are my more pressing ones. Thanks in advance!
  • SanderLSanderL Registered User
    edited May 2012
    Been using the virtual cuelists last weekend, and worked great! Only 1 thing... When i have movements for my moving heads via a virtual cuelist, how do i easily adjust the speed of the movement?
  • Hugovd89Hugovd89 Registered User
    edited May 2012
    SanderL wrote: »
    Been using the virtual cuelists last weekend, and worked great! Only 1 thing... When i have movements for my moving heads via a virtual cuelist, how do i easily adjust the speed of the movement?

    Touch and hold the virtual cuelist, and then you have the speed under the encoders just like the master faders. after the adjusment quickly sweep away from your cuelist (if you use Add Release End Cue, or have multiple que's in the list).

    Morgen dagje vrij dan bel ik met danny voor de tafel.
  • SanderLSanderL Registered User
    edited May 2012
    Hugovd89 wrote: »
    Touch and hold the virtual cuelist, and then you have the speed under the encoders just like the master faders. after the adjusment quickly sweep away from your cuelist (if you use Add Release End Cue, or have multiple que's in the list).

    Morgen dagje vrij dan bel ik met danny voor de tafel.
    Wederom bedankt. Zo krijg ik steeds meer manieren door om de tafel te gebruiken.

    En ik hoor het wel, wat het word ;)
  • ACCPIG3ACCPIG3 Registered User
    edited June 2013
    Been Busking for years.. Know ya user numbers!!! I leave faders for mainly int stuff, put pos,beam, col in scene directory in vert columns, run fx from programmer - speed size control, use fade changes to use palletes with lotsa attributes in it, pan/tilt speed for flyouts etc.... urm.. priorities and persists here and there.. Highlight/lowlights is fun.. I been trying to make a moving light console work like an old school rock board ever since movers come along.. busking is good fun!!
  • Buzz313thBuzz313th Registered User
    edited August 2013
    Pure Busking (Meaning you have never heard the music before) is truly an artform...

    One Hog Desk with 10 faders is cool and you can use the Scene, List and macro directories to supplement the lack of faders, but it will never replace Actual faders and toggle/flash buttons so you can "Play" the desk like a keyboard and have manual fade control of parameters.

    If you can, the addition of an H4 Fader wing, Master Wing and the old school H3 mini playback wing can be added and scaled to your busking needs...

    One of the coolest FOH setups I have seen is three mini playback wings attached to a custom wing holder so all the wings sit left of the desk and in three vertical layers... The LD didn't have to reach that far to get his left hand on any of the three fader wings...
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