FX problem after updating a cue

srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
I have an pan FX with low speed and small size (like 2bpm, 3 degrees)
After updating something (like a desk channel intensity) to the cue the effect does not run smoothly anymore.

The cue I'm updating has the FX as tracked information.
If I run the cue what is the source of FX and then the cues with tracked information, it runs smoothly again.
Also if I suck the FX to the programmer from the cue, it runs smoothly.

I haven't tried what happens if the FX is recorded as hard values.

But it seems the console has problems asserting the cue with tracked FX after updating.

Comments

  • Michael_GrahamMichael_Graham Registered User, Super Moderator, HES Staff
    edited August 2011
    Sami

    What version are you running 3.2.0 or 3.2.1?
    Is this only when running an FX as slow speeds and small sizes?
    I have been unable to recreate this in the lab so any extra info you can give would be helpful in finding what you as seeing.
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited August 2011
    I'm running 3.2.1
    That jumpy FX seems to happen also when recorded just the normal way.
    I have Sin in P and T speed 3 size 3 in 4 VL3500 spots.
    Offset 25, 225, 104, 306
    The FX runs smooth from programmer, but gets jumpy when played from cue.
    The strange FX behaviour can be seen also in output window.
    Maybe I should send you the showfile.
  • Michael_GrahamMichael_Graham Registered User, Super Moderator, HES Staff
    edited August 2011
    Yes, please send me the show file.
  • Michael_GrahamMichael_Graham Registered User, Super Moderator, HES Staff
    edited August 2011
    Sami

    I got the show file, I will look into this and report back what I find.
  • cmuenchowcmuenchow Registered User, Administrator, HES Staff
    edited August 2011
    Sami,

    If you turn off art-net for all the universes does the problem go away? That's just a quick way to help us deduce if this is an engine problem or a desk problem.
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited August 2011
    Hmm...
    Everything here is run through Art-net... So, I think it kind of goes away :)
    But seriously... The jumpy FX can be seen in Output window. For example in cue 34, when update something there. If I suck those VLs to the Programmer the problem goes away. But I continue troubleshooting this...
  • cmuenchowcmuenchow Registered User, Administrator, HES Staff
    edited August 2011
    We're not really seeing anything problematic in the output window. My point on disabling the art-net is that if you can see the jumpiness in the output window I was curious if the jumpiness went away after disabling art-net.
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited August 2011
    I will try that tomorrow if I have enough time.
    I think I'll take a short video also about what is going on in the output window.
    I will also check the DMX window.
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited August 2011
    http://db.tt/VCkP2qx

    A short video of what is happening in Output window.
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited August 2011
    I kind of found the reason for this problem. I powered off the DP number 3 and everything seems to run fine. Could this be a somekind of sync issue when DPs are outputting the same?
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited August 2011
    srautane wrote: »
    I kind of found the reason for this problem. I powered off the DP number 3 and everything seems to run fine. Could this be a somekind of sync issue when DPs are outputting the same?

    Do you have two DPs outputting the same ArtNet data on the same system?

    This could certainly bring down a system in a hurry since your ArtNet recievers wouldn't know which source to pay attention to first.

    If you need ArtNet redundacy @ the DP level you need a network A/B switch.

    Hope this helps. :)
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited August 2011
    Do you have two DPs outputting the same ArtNet data on the same system?

    Yes, I have. Art-Net can have multiple servers.
    My DPs have different Fixture link (Art-Net server) IP addresses.
    My nodes are set so that one of the DPs is the primary source and when it fails the nodes start to listen the other one.
    In Luminex nodes it's called IP backup mode.
    This could certainly bring down a system in a hurry since your ArtNet recievers wouldn't know which source to pay attention to first.
    That could be the case if my DPs have the same fixture link address. But, they don't.

    How do you explain that the jumpy FX can be seen in output window and goes away when data is sucked to programmer? (Check the video)
  • cmuenchowcmuenchow Registered User, Administrator, HES Staff
    edited August 2011
    Hi Sami,

    Yes, the mix of two DP8000s with the same patch data explains the jumpiness in the output window as the output window is feedback driven and the timing between the two DP8000s will always have a little bit of drift in the feedback they provide back to the console.

    However, the two DPs should not be causing problems onstage in terms of DMX output. Of course, since you working with Art-Net that changes things a bit since you do have two streaming sources going at once.

    I unfortunately don't have any experience with or access to a Luminex switch. Are you using the Ethernet-DMX8 MkII?
  • ahelgorahelgor Registered User
    edited August 2011
    an easy way to rule out the artnet side is to keep both dp's running(thats when you see the problem) and disconnect the artnet output from one of the dp's.
    -In this setup both dp's will be online on the hognetwork, and if they are causing this problem themselves, you would still see the problem on the output from one dp(or the other if you change to the other).




    -If the problem disapears, you have a problem on the artnet side. -If so, my guess is that your Luminex node gets confused in some way, and tries to swap source back and forth between the two dp's.
    (I don't know how the DP ensures "sync". and if they are not 100% in sync a artnet node that is setup to do LTP merging in some way can then be confused. i guess that it might be possible that we can see a little drift between two dp's?! -Why the problem goes away when you stomp, or suck. i dont know, and can only speculate, but it can be that the dp keeps better sync when sucked or stomped as opposed to when the dp gets info about that it needs to calculate the changes in efx when you edit it..based on priority or something. )

    However I don't know if this is true, and in any case this will probably be a more theoretical problem than something that you will see in real life since the sync is hopefully better than this, but I guess that in some cases depending on the speed and size on the changes on each value in the dmx packet you could see something like this.
    And also the way the luminex node has merging implemented in software can make this "worse".. In some way they need to deside how to switch between sources.. if one source stops.. how long should you wait before you change to Backup source? one packet?(approx 40 ms if streamed at 25HZ) one second? 10 seconds?..
    -If one packet.. what happens if you loose a packet due to network traffic? that will make the box switch over, and i guess the switch can look like a "jump" if dmx values are right(or wrong)
    -Anyways, there are tons of reasons this could get wrong, but if implemented in a wise way, this should work. And my impression is that Luminex makes reaaaly good products!
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited August 2011
    Chris,

    The node is the older model. Though, I have a spare which is MKII.
    I will check that node is working correctly.
    But I'm wondering why FX works in programmer? In output window and on stage.
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited August 2011
    Thanks Anders,

    Good points! I'll try also just removing the cable... How come I didn't try that...
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited August 2011
    :dunce: Ok... problem solved.
    Thanks guys being patient and helping me.
    The reason was on Art-Net side.
    A couple of weeks ago I did some changes how my DMX lines are run in the theatre. I moved two DMX lines from FOH to gallery, cause there was a node which was closer to the fixtures.
    I thought all my outlets in Luminex nodes were set properly, but now I checked everything again. For some unknown reason I had wrong custom merging mode in two outlets which I hadn't used before.
    They were in LTP mode so it's kind of obvious what happens when DPs are in different sync.
    Now everything is set up correctly and runs smoothly.

    Sorry guys.
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