Using midi timecode for a show - triggering random Lists

Diving into the realm of automation, just started doing research on my options, but I just want to make sure I'm headed in the right direction...

What I'm wanting to do is execute lighting cues from audio tracks using midi, and I can see that this is easily done for an individual cue list, but what I'm wondering is what happens when a new song starts.

In a simple example, the drummer from the band fires loop 1 that has MTC associated with it, I want List 1 to execute with that loop. The drummer fires loop 2 with MTC, then list 2 executes. This order can be reversed.

I guess my question is, I can see that cues can be triggered by MTC, but when a new track is started, will the MTC be "reset" in a sense? Maybe my question is, how do I create specific MIDI info for the specific audio tracks that can be fired in any order and executed as such. Basically automating a show fired by audio tracks that can be in any order...

Hope you guys can follow where I'm going with this, feel free to point me to some good reading if you know of some.
I'm planning on using a H3PC system for this.
Thanks!
Chris

0 jxgriffi - Former HES Forum Member over 13 years ago

If you are truly using Midi Time Code (as opposed to notes or Midi show control), just have the timecode strip at a different hour for each song. That way, whenever the song is triggered, it will always go to the right list.

(and don't forget to leave a few seconds of pre-roll to lock it up)
Song 1 - 01/00/00.00 (first note of song...)
Song 2 - 02/00/00.00
Song 3 - 03/00/00.00...etc., etc. etc.

That way, if they change the order, the correct list will still trigger.

j
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0 dwp-av - Former HES Forum Member over 13 years ago

Thanks Jon,
I'm thinking of using a program like Ableton to fire the tracks, and I think that it can also act as a Midi Show Controller. Is there any advantage to using both MSC and MTC together vs. what you listed above? I like the idea of just changing the hour of the strip for simplicity sake, but again, if there is an advantage in using using MSC as well, I'm all ears.
Thanks for the quick reply!
Chris
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0 jxgriffi - Former HES Forum Member over 13 years ago

With MSC, you can specify the actual list to be fired. It's 6 one way, 1/2 dozen the other really.

The thing you have to watch for is if you move the list to a new location (list number), you would also have to redo the MSC cues. With timecode, it's stamped with the actual SMPTE and not tied to a list number.
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0 rwilliams over 13 years ago

Hi Chris we are using midi notes currently to do what you describe. Each event has a specific midi note on a specified channel which fires specific comment macros thus controlling pages and lists.

I'm not sure if this will help you but it works very well for us.

Regards

Ross
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0 dwp-av - Former HES Forum Member over 13 years ago

Yup, I think this is the way to go. Gonna start working on it next week. Thanks all!
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0 JimOhrberg over 13 years ago

If you have MTC and MSC available, you can use MSC to fire the first cue in the list and then let the rest of the list chase the MTC. That avoids having to create any pre-roll for your time code.
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0 dwp-av - Former HES Forum Member over 13 years ago

Would that be the same as having the loop program use a midi note the fire a macro for the list? If I just use MTC, how much pre-roll are we talking about? What exactly is this doing?
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0 JimOhrberg over 13 years ago

The pre-roll allows the consoles internal clock enough time to sync with the external MTC. 1 to 2 seconds is generally adequate.

You could use a midi note trigger to start a list as well, but I haven't used that method myself. I have used the MSC technique many times with consistent playback success.
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0 meh 626 - Former HES Forum Member over 13 years ago

With Pre-roll for MTC, do you make the first to be cue to be triggered 1-2 seconds after the start of the time code e.g. first cue @ 00.00.02:00?

Does the pre-roll apply to timecode from internal CD playback in the console?
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0 JimOhrberg over 13 years ago

Start MTC at 0/0/58.00 The music track begins at same moment with 2 seconds of silence.
Cue 1 fires at 1/0/0.00 when the music starts.

A 2 second pre-roll is very conservative. You may find that shorter times provide consistent first cue execution.

I don't have experience with using the internal CD time code, so I can't comment on how long it takes the console to lock to that code source.
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0 meh 626 - Former HES Forum Member over 13 years ago

Thanks Jim, very helpful. I'll ensure to leave 2 seconds max even when using the CD timecode just to be on the safe side.
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0 marty postma - Former HES Forum Member over 13 years ago

Just to be clear CD Timecode is only available on the full H3 desk.
No other H3 based desk or H3PC have this feature available (this thread was started regarding a H3PC system).

Hope this helps. :)
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0 rwilliams over 13 years ago

The document posted by Chris Muenchow a week ago is a good guide especially combined with the b2826 release notes.

flyingpig.com/support/documents/AudioVisualControllerSolutions.pdf

www.flyingpig.com/support/downloads/releasenotes/Wholehog_v3.1.7_b2826_Release_Notes.pdf

MSC, LTC and MTC are all reliable methods in my experience, but Midi Notes have also proved useful for us on 4 consoles for the past 9 days without issues, and I would recommend at least considering this option.

Regards

Ross
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