Recording a Cue only cue in Tracking mode

chadlchadl Registered User
To the best of my understanding if you are in tracking mode and you want to record a 'cue-only' cue you deselect forward. My question is how do you record a blank cue after that. Example, Cue 1 I have stage wash up, and cue 2 I record 'cue only' for a video look. On strand boards I would record a blank cue after that and it would transition out all my cue 2 changes.
I would like to be able to do this so that 10 video rolls into rehearsal I notice that SR is a little darker than the rest of the stage, so I record SR a little brighter and track back. If I have a blank cue after each video it would track all the way back to where it was recorded. However, if I have to set levels in each restore cue then I'd have to go back and fix that dark spot in every cue.

Comments

  • bradpepebradpepe Registered User, HES Alumni
    edited November 2010
    Hi Chad,

    Turning off Forward to create a cue only cue only works when you are recording, inserting, or merging into a cue that already has a cue before and after it. When you record with Forward off, then the desk will take values from the previous cue and record them into the subsequent cue (the one after the one you are recording to). If you do not have any subsequent cues, then the forward is ignored.

    In order to accomplish what you are asking for in your example, you will need to record a blank cue 3 BEFORE you record cue 2 as cue only.
  • chadlchadl Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Okay, so this works fine, but this creates hard values in all of those cues and does not allow me to track back. How can I write this so that the values track through my video cues, but the video cues can have there own values. This way each Wash look would not have hard values.
  • kevinj.lawsonkevinj.lawson Registered User
    edited November 2010
    I'm not entirely sure this will work, but for your stage look can you make an intensity pallet and just reference that pallet in your cues? This way when you want to change your stage look you just have to update the pallet and not worry so much about the video cues tracking through because you would have hard values in your list, but they would be easily changeable through that reference. If your stage look is more than just conventional lights I believe you can build your look and save that to a pallet too, you just have to be sure to select all the values you want to save with the "use I,P,C,B" buttons.

    I believe this will work for you situation or I could have missed the mark completely.
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited November 2010
    Maybe thinking a bit what a "blank" cue in a tracking world means can help.

    Like we know if nothing is recorded the cue contains only tracked values from previous cue.
    In a non tracking preset console when nothing is recorded fixtures are in their default state. So, a blank cue in a tracking console is a cue where fixtures are recorded in their default values.
    To make fixtures go to default values you can use . + Fixture

    If blocking/hard values are a problem you can use unblock. Unblock can filtered by fixture and mask. You dont have to unblock the whole cue. Also, unblock can be used for several cues (if I remember right). Just try and experiment with the command line.

    Unblock can be done also using record/merge + remove, but you must be careful cause remove can delete also recorded values.

    With Hog3 it is also possible to merge to range of cues using forward off and then use unblock to that same cue range.
    That way you have values recorded only to certain range and there's no hard values.
  • chadlchadl Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Kevin, those are great idea's and almost gets me to what I'm looking for. The only flaw is that if I choose to add a channel or remove a channel, I'd still have to go back into each cue and change that.

    Sami, I've played with the unblocking function a little bite. And all that does is remove unnecessary hard value. The values put in after a 'cue only' would not be removed because they are not redundant values. Therefore I'd still have hard values in every cue and the "wash" cues would not be tracking through the "video" cues.
  • kevinj.lawsonkevinj.lawson Registered User
    edited November 2010
    chadl wrote: »
    Kevin, those are great idea's and almost gets me to what I'm looking for. The only flaw is that if I choose to add a channel or remove a channel, I'd still have to go back into each cue and change that.

    Hmm...that does present a problem. How about you try creating scenes for your stage look and your video look. Then in your cue list make blank cues and use macros to launch the respective scenes. The advantage for this is that you just have to update your scene with whatever you need to create that particular look including fixtures. The disadvantage comes in juggling the two scenes especially if the two scenes don't have the exact same fixtures in them. If they do, when one executes the other will release. If they don't then you will most likely have to execute your stage scene and release your video scene in one comment macro and vice versa.

    This might all be much more leg work than the solution you are looking for but I'm just trying to think of different ways to accomplish what you are trying to achieve.
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited November 2010
    chadl wrote: »
    The values put in after a 'cue only' would not be removed because they are not redundant values. Therefore I'd still have hard values in every cue and the "wash" cues would not be tracking through the "video" cues.

    Yes. that is true. You can use merge+remove to remove those values.
  • chadlchadl Registered User
    edited November 2010
    srautane wrote: »
    Yes. that is true. You can use merge+remove to remove those values.

    If you removed those values then you'd have the values from the 'video' look, and not from the 'stage' look. It would be as the cue recorded with forward off is still a tracking cue.
  • srautanesrautane Registered User, Hog Beta
    edited November 2010
    I must say it is a bit hard for me to understand this because of my limited skills in English. It would be nice if you could write a little example of the cuelist.
    Like Kevin said, I would also try using scenes+ a cuelist and comment macros.
    If you want all scenes to be updated, It might be good to use a range of scenes and update them using merge.
  • edited November 2010
    Chad, the behavior you're describing is a "Strand'ism" (it might even be specific to the Strand 500, I don't think the LP90 does it that way). On the Obsession and most other tracking consoles I've used, "Cue Only" is processed at record time by adding hard values into the following cue. Handling cue-only at playback is unusual, and I'd argue it violates the spirit of Tracking/LTP.

    When you need to bump levels up and down for video, can you use another list that just has intensity recorded in it? Play that list either manually or from a comment macro and let it over-ride the tracked value until you want to release it.
  • chadlchadl Registered User
    edited November 2010
    This makes sense since I learned tracking on a Strand 520i. So I guess the answer to my original question is no, hog does not do the 'cue only' like I was trying to.

    "...and I'd argue it violates the spirit of Tracking/LTP."

    Eric, this has mad me a little curious about the backgrounds of tracking. I've always thought that tracking stemmed from 2-scene preset consoles. Coming from a 2 scene preset my idea of a 'cue only' seems like it makes more sense, because when switching scenes your original scene would remained untouched.
  • edited November 2010
    > this has mad me a little curious about the
    > backgrounds of tracking.

    Oh man... There have been whole books written on this topic by people far more knowledgeable than I.

    Historically there are two styles of operation for theatrical consoles. Tracking and Preset. Neither is better, it's a matter of personal preference and operating style (like Coke vs. Pepsi, Mac vs. PC, and Radial Arm Saw vs. Table Saw). A good operator will know how to use both.

    Tracking stores only the values that change in each cue. If you bring a fixture up to a level, it will stay at that level through every cue until it is explicitly changed.

    Preset stores every value in every cue. If you write a cue, anything that's not included in that particular cue will be off.

    There are some operations that can be cumbersome on each, so most tracking consoles offer you a way to behave somewhat like a preset consoles, and vice-versa. The ETC Expression (a preset console) has a "Record Track" button that will attempt to track a single change through a series of preset scenes. The Light Palette (tracking), has a "Cue Only" function to let you record a single cue without those levels tracking through. Exactly how those crossover functions behave is dependent on the specific console.

    The Strand 500 series (may it rest is peace) was extraordinarily powerful, but I don't have enough time on one to give you the details of how it handles tracking.
  • chadlchadl Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Yeah, I understand tracking and preset. I've spent a lot of time on Strand 500 series, so I understand much of it's tracking possibilities. That is probably why I am having this issue on the h3. I guess I was more interested in the history of a 'cue only' cue on tracking console and why it is actually a blocking, or soft blocking, cue.
  • edited November 2010
    My experience only goes back as far as the Strand Light Palette 90. The conventions for tracking and Cue Only behavior had all been established well before that console was built. You may have better luck asking on the Light Network. There's a much larger contingent of UK-based programmers there who may be able to give you the detailed history.
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