MSC & Road Hog

fisheyfingersfisheyfingers Registered User
i've been trying to use the M-audio Uno for MSC on the road hog. sometimes it works, but most of the time it doesn't. it is supposed to be hot swap, but i have to restart the console a bunch of times before it works (if it does). is anyone successfully using midi on the road hog? any info is appreciated. i bought an expensive show control program, and spent lots of hours programming it, and can rarely use it. totally bugging me. thanks.

Comments

  • Unknown Users Awaiting Email Confirmation
    edited November 2010
    The 3.1.x and older software does not support hot-swapping USB MIDI interfaces. If it loses communication with the Uno it will not re-establish the connection until you restart.
  • fisheyfingersfisheyfingers Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Ok, but any ideas why it rarely works at all? Is this a known issue? Or just a problem with me?
  • Unknown Users Awaiting Email Confirmation
    edited November 2010
    I'm not aware of any known issues.

    You might try the interface with a standard computer and see if you have any issues there.
  • fisheyfingersfisheyfingers Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Tried it with my computer and a midi keyboard, and everything was fine. I gotta get this thing working. Any other ideas?
  • fisheyfingersfisheyfingers Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Mor info if it helps:

    Mac running q lab to presonus FireWire interface to m-audio UNO USB to roadhog
  • Unknown Users Awaiting Email Confirmation
    edited November 2010
    You can try a different MIDI source and see if that works any better, or put the MIDI signal through a sequence or some other device that will regenerate the signal.

    Try another USB to MIDI adapter if you have one available, or see if you can rent/borrow a console with built in MINI to test with (Hog3, iPC, or RHFB all have MIDI).
  • Abbe RPM Digital LightingAbbe RPM Digital Lighting Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Hi,

    I will be using the USB - Midi UNO on 12 consoles here in sweden shortly so i assume if there is a general problem i´ll find it.
    Some general tips though:
    - Make sure the connectors have no oxide, clen with alcohol and "cottontipstick"
    - Try both outlets
    - Make sure you have the latest 3.1.7 Software installed
    - The LEDs on the UNO, does the USB one, blink flash or have a steady light? Compare it to the behaviour when installed to your PC

    And good luck, ill get back in as soon as i have tried my first set up here.
  • Abbe RPM Digital LightingAbbe RPM Digital Lighting Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Hi,

    Just to let you know, i have problems with the M-Audio UNO and two Roadhogs as well. Just reported to Engineering.

    Sorry for the inconvenience.
  • robbie_brucerobbie_bruce Registered User
    edited January 2011
    The UNO driver has a known issue that it does not properly communicate to the application layer when it is connected so you must have the device connected before logging onto your show. If the device is disconnected unfortunately you have to log off/on to have the application again recognize the driver.

    Obviously, this is not ideal and outside of our control and recommend if you require MIDI you use FB or Hog3 that has midi built-in.
  • Hans BHans B Registered User
    edited January 2011
    The same over here, can't get the M-Audio Uno work with my Roadhog.
    Even when it is connected before starting up the console.
    Is there an other way to get the MSC out of a QLab Mac into the RH?
  • cmuenchowcmuenchow Registered User, Administrator, HES Staff
    edited January 2011
    Hans,

    Are you seeing the USB light on the UNO slowing flashing when you connect it?
  • Abbe RPM Digital LightingAbbe RPM Digital Lighting Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Hi,

    You do need a USB Midi interface to get MIDI IN to the Roadhog. The only one supported is the M-Audio UNO.
    Just to be sure that we have the same problem there are a few things to check:
    - Does it work on your computer?
    - Do you have a XPe 1.4.0 - 1.6.0?
    - Do you have Software 3.1.7?
    - Do you see a slowly fading led (usb) on the UNO?
    - Have you enabled the MSC In or the Notes In in the Network Settings Window?

    I suspect that you get it to work if you start a new show with the UNO
    connected and then after patching etc, Choose Exit and Log Off, then just
    restart the same show.
  • robbie_brucerobbie_bruce Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Abbe is correct in things to check.. Look forward to hearing back the results. In our testing we have not run into any problems but I want to make sure our environment (XPE image, Application, and driver s/w versions) are the same so we can properly reproduce the problem and get a fix if there is indeed an issue.
  • Hans BHans B Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Hi Abbe,

    about your questions:

    - Does it work on your computer?
    Yes
    - Do you have a XPe 1.4.0 - 1.6.0?
    i have 1.6.0
    - Do you have Software 3.1.7?
    v3.1.7
    - Do you see a slowly fading led (usb) on the UNO?
    yes, and when sending a command there is a flash from an other led
    - Have you enabled the MSC In or the Notes In in the Network Settings Window?
    yes, like in your jpg picture

    After setting up the show a did a couple of restarts to get the Uno work, without result.

    Hans
  • robbie_brucerobbie_bruce Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Can you verify if you go a list and have MSC out enabled whether the out LED blinks.. If so, then the application if talking to the device properly and it is either the source MIDI or the connected wrong.

    The connector's on the UNO are counter intuitive where the connector says "Midi In" (to).. Where you connect Midi In to Midi In..

    Look forward to hearing back whether the LED blinks on MSC out. That will tell us a lot.
  • Hans BHans B Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Robbie,

    When sending a command from Qlab to the RH, then the "Midi In" led on the Uno lights up.

    After disconnecting/connecting the main power and starting up the console i got the MSC setup finally working.
    But after that, when i logged off and launched the excising show, it failed.
    Then i had to launch a couple of time to get it work again.

    On this moment it still works,
    hmm, but i wonder if it does when i need it?

    Hans
  • robbie_brucerobbie_bruce Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Hans,

    The way the uno works is there are a couple steps..

    First, upon the initial connection the device only has enough firmware loaded to be able to talk to the OS and load its normal firmware contained within the driver. Once that occurs, you will see the USB LED illuminated. That means the OS discovered the device and loaded the proper driver and it has uploaded its firmware. This method allows the firmware to be upgraded through a new driver release.

    Second, now that the device is running code and connected the Midi In/Out LED's imply the firmware received the midi message. Midi In is just a serial connection and the firmware simply retransmits that message to the driver then it sends it on to the application. Midi Out is the same in reverse.

    So to ensure the driver is properly communicating, the application needs to send it a midi out command. If the Midi Out Led flashes then the message made it all the way through the driver and was processed by the firmware in the device.

    If you see the Midi In LED flash and not the Midi Out LED means the driver is either not loaded or not communicating. Our application goes through the OS to interface with driver as do all applications.

    If the Midi Out LED flashes but the Midi In LED does not flash means it is the connection or source.

    Given all that.. When it does not seem to work please try to report back the LED in/out status when you attempt to both midi out and in. Keep in mind you must have both MSC In/Out enabled when you run the test.

    We look forward to the results of the test and can hopefully deduce where the problem lies and guide us to a solution.
  • Hans BHans B Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Robbie,

    When it does not seem to work: only the LED-in blinks.
    Mostly after one time log-off/on it works and then both input and output LED's blink when i send a Go-command.
  • robbie_brucerobbie_bruce Registered User
    edited January 2011
    That means it the application driver is not communicating with our application or to the device correctly. Thankfully, M-Audio has recently released a new version of their drivers. We are currently trying to get an image with the updated drivers but on PC they behave as I would expect. Hopefully, we can get you an image to test sometime this week. Would you be up for that?
  • Hans BHans B Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Hi Robbie,

    That's okay, i can do a test with the updated drivers.
    Send a message via Email when you have it.

    Hans
  • LuxProDeoLuxProDeo Registered User
    edited January 2012
    Was the above ever resolved?

    I have a problem with MSC out of a Road Hog through a M-Audio Uno.
    Hog3 software version 3.2.1.

    At first everything works but after some time (1-2 hours) it just stops working without any obvious cause. Everything is still connected and the Hog is just running cues on a single cue list. But no more MIDI output is generated. (The receiving application (QLab2) doesn't respond and the MIDI OUT led on the Uno doesn't flash anymore. However the slow blinking status LED on the Uno is still slowly blinking.) When I disconnect the M-Audio at this point I get a BSOD an the Hog totally chrashes.

    I had a similar problem in 2010 with 3.1.4. with a Uno that every once in a while suddenly stopped working. However that was sending plain MIDI strings - and with totally different hardware (another Road Hog, another Uno from different suppliers).

    Does anyone have experiences like this or quite the contrary when working with Road Hog / M-Audio Uno?

    Kind regards,
    Jorg
  • cmuenchowcmuenchow Registered User, Administrator, HES Staff
    edited January 2012
    Jorg, what version of the Windows XPE are you running? You can find that info under the info tab of the control panel.

    Also does the device show up in the control panel midi drop down menu as "Midi Sport Uno 1x1" or "Midi Sport Uno"? This will tell us if you have the newer or older model of the device.

    In any case they should both be able to be unplugged and replugged during show operation and still continue to output MSC.

    It sounds like like something flakey is going on. Make sure you have the latest v1.8.2 Restore Image on your Road Hog as that will have the latest Uno drivers.
  • LuxProDeoLuxProDeo Registered User
    edited January 2012
    Hello Chris,
    Thanks for your reply.

    The XPE image version is 1.8.1.
    Is there any difference between this and 1.8.2. in MIDI drivers?

    I was not able to unplug since this caused a complete console crash (BSOD and no more response on mouse and/or keys).

    About the exact name of the Uno device I will get back to you asap. (It's a tour now touring with an operator, I just did the programming when it started up. They are touring without MSC since it is considered not show-safe because of this problem.)

    kind regards,
    Jorg
  • LuxProDeoLuxProDeo Registered User
    edited January 2012
    Hi Chris,

    Some news from the operator of this setup:

    - The M-Audio unit shows up in the control panel as: "Midi Sport Uno 1x1"
    - XPE Image is indeed 1.8.1

    Do you have an idea what the problem might be?

    kind regards,
    Jorg
  • LuxProDeoLuxProDeo Registered User
    edited July 2012
    Hi all,

    Just bringing this topic back up- since the problem was never resolved.
    (The solution was not using MIDI on the RH, but that's a bit crude.)

    Now a new production is coming up that will need a form of MIDI communication between a Road Hog and a computer running Ableton Live. I am wondering if there is any news regarding the stability of MIDI on the Road Hog?

    I see the problems described by Abbe, Hans and myself, but no mention of any of them actually solved.

    Is anybody succesfully (and more important: repeatedly) using MIDI and/org MSC on the Road Hog (plain vanilla) with the Midisport UNO? If so it would be nice to hear some things about it. Unfortunately a Full Boar is not an option due to availability, so now a certain dull Grey german console is under consideration because of the RH MIDI issues- a solution which I would like to avoid.

    kind regards,
    Jorg
  • Unknown Users Awaiting Email Confirmation
    edited July 2012
    Newer versions of the software will accept any standard USB MIDI Class device. If you're having problems with the Uno, try a different MIDI interface.

    There's always this:
    http://www.highend.com/products/controllers/usbltcwidget.asp
  • LuxProDeoLuxProDeo Registered User
    edited July 2012
    Hello Eric,

    Thanks for your reply- good to hear that MIDI on the Road Hog is still considered a possibilty.

    Which versions of the software and image are the ones that support class-compliant MIDI?

    Short of the LTC/MTC widget would you recommend still using a UNO or would another class-compliant interface actually be more stable?

    Kind regards,
    Jorg
  • Unknown Users Awaiting Email Confirmation
    edited July 2012
    There are too many different versions of the uno to reliably say which will work, and which will not.

    I believe MIDI Class support was added in the early 3.2.0 releases.

    In order for the MIDI to work, on some RH consoles you may need to go into the BIOS settings and enable the on-board "HD Audio" controller and re-install the OS from scratch. The OS won't load the appropriate drivers if it doesn't see the audio hardware.
Sign In or Register to comment.