Midi Control of Hog3PC

rabeilerrabeiler Registered User
edited November 2010 in Wholehog 3 General Discussion
I have been researching this forum and Lightnetwork to see if I can find an answer to something I am trying to setup. So far I have seen a lot of ideas but I am just not clear if they will do what I want, nervous about buying something and then finding out it won't work or has a steep learning curve, so let me describe what I want to do.

- Take an audio clip and be able to listen to the audio clip in real time and add markers to it that will eventually correlate to MSC for cue changes for the Hog. An example would something like Sound Forge where you can listen to an audio track and add markers dynamically.

- Once I have the timeline of the audio clip with markers in it, I want to be able to define MSC lighting commands to trigger cues on my Hog3PC. I tried a beta version of TJShow 4 that allows me to create cues, but it looks like it won't allow me to place the cue markers into the timeline while listening to the audio clip. It also seemed to limit the audio clip to just 59 seconds. The audio clip that I need to do this with is about 10 minutes long and there are large number of cues (couple 100) to place in it. Stoping and starting the audio clip is not an efficient manner for adding the markers.

Any ideas? Is it one program or multiple ones?

- So if I can find a program that allows me to do this, I probably need a USB midi interface as well. I think I have that covered for now.

- This also needs to run on Windows 7, 32 bit or even 64 bit. I tried looking at cubase, but it looks like I need to get a usb elicense first for it before I can even try it. It looks like there might be more options for a Mac compared to a PC. I do have an iMac as well as PCs so I can be flexible on platform.

- Ideally, I would also like to be able to use the software to trigger other things like a projector, additional audio clips, and other pc apps, such as powerpoint.

- I am on a shoestring budget. I have talked to some folks about programs like Nuendo and Vegas, but we all agreed that this is major overkill as I am not a musician and not a sound engineer.

Thanks for any ideas you are willing to share.

Ross

Comments

  • ChrisTallChrisTall Registered User, DL Beta
    edited July 2010
    In the past we've done Sonar 6 to a HOG III.
    Audio on tracks 1-N, MIDI Notes on Track N+1
    Laptop -> USB MIDI Adapter -> MIDI Solutions Event Processor -> Hog III

    For you, you'll need a widget to get the MIDI into HOG3PC

    That's one idea.
  • erockerock Registered User
    edited July 2010
    You don't need a widget to get MIDI data into Hog3PC, only a MIDI input/output device that Windows recognizes. Page 348 of the manual talks about this.

    Getting SMPTE data into the console requires a SMPTE widget.


    Eric
  • Abbe RPM Digital LightingAbbe RPM Digital Lighting Registered User
    edited July 2010
    Hi,

    You really have a bunch of specific requirements ;)

    So this is what is generally called ShowControl and there are several programs that try to solve this.
    No one is really close in my opinion and if they are, REALLY expensive. The best one so far is Medialon, or the Barco Events Manager (Witch includes libraries for the Barco Products)
    Anyway, some hands on opinonated advice:
    - Sonar is a very good software for these kind of things, i use it for demos and exhibitions. They do have a full working test for 15 days you can use to determine if it will fill all those needs.
    - I would suggest a set-up like this for cheapest solution:
    LapTop with a 2 channels MIDI interface
    Sonar as Sound device, outputting MIDI timecode to
    HOG III software on same LapTop (via the interface
    Use MIDI out of the HOG to trigg the devices you need, via interfaces if they do not support MidiShowControl commands direct.

    This will enable you to program these points along the timecode you mention in the playback of the HOG rather than in the track of Sonar.

    If you need to trigg DMX devices, you add a HOG III widget, witch you can find used here on the forum

    If you need to trigg GM devices, you use the Sonar track as suggested above.

    Hope this helps :)
  • rabeilerrabeiler Registered User
    edited July 2010
    Abbe,

    Thanks for you suggestions. I did download Medialon 5 last night before I got your message and had requested a demo password. It looks extremely powerful and therefore, i am expecting it to be pretty expensive - but I don't know for sure. I just watched their demo video and was extremely impressed with all of the features.

    Ross
  • ahelgorahelgor Registered User
    edited July 2010
    just to add that if you need to link two midi applications running on the same machine, you don't even need a midi hardware..
    Midi-yoke is a free virtual midi port hub, with in's and out's, so you can virtually route midi interanlly on a computer.. works very well.
    (I have not used/tested it on windows 7 though)
  • rabeilerrabeiler Registered User
    edited July 2010
    Anyone have any experience with Qlab. It looks like it will do what I want.

    I got quote for Meialon and unfortunately it is out of my price range. Looks like a fantastic piece of software. Much more than I would need at the theatre.

    Ross
  • erockerock Registered User
    edited July 2010
    Q Lab is a great option but it's only for Mac and you said originally that it needs to run on a pc?

    Eric
  • rabeilerrabeiler Registered User
    edited July 2010
    Eric - thanks. I do have an iMac that I can use and there are usually someone on tech at the theatre that has a Mac so I was probably not as clear as I could have been. My preferences were Windows 7, but as I get more educated in this, it really looks like there are more options available for the Mac.

    I downloaded the trial version of Qlab and was playing with it. I will rent the license for a couple of days to see it it does what I need. I am going to borrow a usb midi adapter from a friend, get everything together to play and see what happens.

    Thanks again.

    Ross
  • Abbe RPM Digital LightingAbbe RPM Digital Lighting Registered User
    edited July 2010
    Thanks for that tip, it does not show up in a Google search...
    Seems i will have a New Favorite MediaShowController to use with the Hogs :)
    Lets hope the tests i will do are good...
  • cormacjackcormacjack Registered User, DL Beta
    edited September 2010
    Hi,
    I may have asked this before or it may be somehwere out there,
    -if i have a network with a client and server can the midi input be anywhere on the network? Can either the server accept midi notes in also.
    Sorry if this an obvious question.
    C
  • edited September 2010
    MIDI Notes are handled differently than timecode. MIDI notes go directly to the console that they are plugged into.
  • cormacjackcormacjack Registered User, DL Beta
    edited September 2010
    In a situation where the console is at FOH what is the most straightforward route to get midi signal to the FOH lighting console and any suggestions on what hardware if any is required to do this.

    Regards Cormac
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited October 2010
    cormacjack wrote: »
    In a situation where the console is at FOH what is the most straightforward route to get midi signal to the FOH lighting console and any suggestions on what hardware if any is required to do this.

    Hey Cormac,

    I assume your Midi source is onstage in this scenario.
    There are some ways to run Midi long distances, but I would suggest getting a second console (could be a PC) and putting it on a network with your FoH desk, or find one of the old IOPs to recieve Midi.

    Hope this helps. :)
  • cormacjackcormacjack Registered User, DL Beta
    edited October 2010
    Hi Marty,
    I did ask this already and was told Midi does not work directly over a network?
    So if i have a networked midi PC onstage with a USB sport or similar that would not work?
    Old IOP may be the way to go.

    Regards
  • Marty PostmaMarty Postma Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Well if that is the case you might try something like a Kiss Box system to send Midi down a dry Cat-5 line.

    http://www.kissbox.nl/

    http://www.kissbox.nl/products_new.html#midi

    Hope this helps. :)
  • edited November 2010
    MIDI timecode should work fine over a network (using an IOP, Console, or Hog3pc).

    MIDI notes go directly to the console they are connected to, and will not work with an IOP. You can't send MIDI notes over a network, but you can connect it to at networked copy of 3PC that is joined to the same show.
  • Abbe RPM Digital LightingAbbe RPM Digital Lighting Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Hi Eric,

    I find the above sentence a little confusing. Could you elaborate?

    /A
  • edited November 2010
    Which part are you unclear on?

    MIDI can be used to carry several different kinds of data. The three kinda of MIDI data that the Hog3 software recognizes are Notes, Show Control, and Timecode.

    MIDI Note allow you to simulate button presses on your console, similar to what you can do with the Keyboard shortcuts in 3pc. Specific MIDI notes are mapped to specific buttons on the console. You can use this to type "1 thru 10 at full" or "record list 2/5"

    MIDI Show Control allows one controller to play, pause, and control cuelists on another console. You can use it to sync two Hogs together, or to sync it with other consoles.

    MIDI Timecode works the same a SMPTE Linear Timecode, except it's carried over MIDI instead of over an analog audio signal.


    MIDI Notes are executed directly on the console. If you send a 1 2 3, it will put 1 2 3 on the console's command line. You can't have multiple MIDI inputs sending notes to a single console, but you can join multiple consoles to the same show over the network, with each interpreting its own MIDI notes.
  • Abbe RPM Digital LightingAbbe RPM Digital Lighting Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Hi Eric,

    Above is much clearer, and it was our local implementation of MIDI NOTES in a networked situation i was refering to.

    Thanks
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